We’ve just released Episode 113 of the Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast.
Our synopsis for Episode 113 is below:
The Chargers have been putting in the work at OTAs and Mandatory Minicamp. But have the TDU boys been grinding too during their time off? Find out today as we return to the show for a discussion of everything Bolts-related this offseason, from Rashawn Slater’s contract negotiations to the customised patches Harbaugh’s had sewn to his players’ practice jerseys. Who’s got it better #BoltFam? Don’t miss it!
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Hope you enjoy the episode! Thanks so much for listening 🙂
Alister (@TDU_Alister)
Barring injury, this rookie is gonna move right up the TE depth chart and into the lunch pail group. Bank it.
How Oronde Gadsden Has Impressed Teammates & Coaches Early in His Rookie Career https://share.google/8OjSI2oSxaaLGtkGr
Yep, I like the bargain hunter approach. Crossing my fingers that injuries will be less than last year, but at least we are deeper and more protected against them.
Good show.
In discussing the IOL, Al said that James’ peak in the NFL has been better than the others. I’d say Bozeman’s 2021 season was as good or better than James’ 2023 season. It is certainly true that James had that season more recently. I agree with Al’s assessment that flipping Zion and Bozeman seems more likely to create risk/weakness than to be a big positive. Sitting here today, I expect the team will open the season with Zion at LG and Bozeman at C.
I hope Gadsden will be as impactful as Al wants to believe, but I have low expectations for this season, at least unless injuries drive up his snaps. I assume he will have to play special teams, and hopefully he will excel there, but that could definitely limit him on offense. I certainly don’t expect Dissly or Conklin to play special teams.
I agree with Jack that Johnston’s usage this season will better suit his skill set. He should get most of his snaps at Z instead of X, and I think that will indeed be a better fit. I also agree with Al that he will have less opportunity. I think he will play better (quality) but the numbers (quantity) will go down.
I disagree completely that QJ is the player under the most pressure on the roster. Exactly the opposite, actually… upgrading the playmakers around him takes pressure off. He is entering the 3rd year of a fully guaranteed 4 year contract, so not really any pressure from playing for a contract or playing for a raise — he is getting paid the set contract amount for his 3rd and 4th years no matter what. The coaching staff likes him, and he knows what he has to do and, according to Lal, is doing just that.
“Are the Chargers trying to ‘Moneyball’ the CB position?” Good question and discussion.
My thought is that they are trying to Moneyball the entire roster other than 4 position groups: QB, OL, Edge, S. When the team has as much money committed to those position groups, particularly Herbert, Slater, Becton, Mack, and James, sacrifices must be made elsewhere. You could make the exact same kind of argument about the WR group.
Yes, most teams spend more on CB, but they also don’t typically spend as much on the safety group. In 2025, James has the highest cap hit of all safeties in the league, and the Chargers have more cap space committed to the safety group than any other team. It’s not even close. So it makes sense that they have a cheaper CB group. If you combine CB and S into a single DB group, the Chargers are 6th in cap spending for 2025.
I also think Hortiz clearly has a bargain hunter approach to free agency, which is going to naturally lead to this kind of approach. He purposefully chose not to spend a lot of cap space this offseason. I remain convinced that this approach has not maximized use of all resources to maximize winning in 2025. I’ll change my stance if and when he does something that shows he needed to preserve that cap space.
You have a good track record of avoiding the ‘noise’ around this time of year and sticking true to what you see from other indicia (statistical metrics, contract details, etc). Often you end up being correct.
This will be an interesting one to monitor. Through OTAs/Minicamp it seems that the two are rotating but Zion is seeing more of the share at Center. Maybe that was part of the offseason plan, getting those snaps into Zion early, but by training camp we see it flipped? I guess I’m seeing what I want to see out there. The Zion/Bozeman combo struggled for most of last season, and I choose to believe that the coaching staff/front office aren’t just going to run it back. We’ll see. Maybe, like you predict, they’re banking on a second year in the same system together, with Becton in tow, leading to different results.
Totally get your perspective on this. I think I was coming at it from a slightly different angle.
I assume QJ’s goal is to establish himself as a bona fide NFL WR1, receive a big contract extension from the Chargers ($20m+ per season), and not just eke out an existence as a WR3 on a roster getting limited targets. From that perspective (where he was drafted v his future role with the Chargers), he, perhaps with Zion, is under the most pressure to perform this year.
The rest of what you say I’m on board with. QJ should be put in better positions to succeed from those fewer looks. To me, that doesn’t mean the pressure isn’t on though. He doesn’t have the ‘political capital’ with this front office that a guy like McConkey has – who they drafted and has performed at an exemplary level. Could I see a scenario where this time next season, QJ is being traded or cut because they’ve added another offseason’s worth of weapons around him? Yes, I could.
To an extent, every player has to fight every year to justify their future with the team. But hopefully this clarifies where I’m coming from. The pressure is off in one respect (for the reasons you mention), but very much on, in another.
Good points! And when you add to this that the Chargers play with 3 safeties on the field more often than most teams, it’s a clever way of thinking about it.
Totally agree.
1. Zion’s weakest attribute is his awareness, and he only had to have it for one position. So the solution to this is to move him to a new position that he’s never played before or have any comfortability at which requires a much bigger responsibility and awareness level to set the rest of the line?
2. They signed James AND brought Bozeman back just so neither of them could play C because the plan was to move your starting LG there? If that was the plan why sign James and not another OG?
3. The IOL was the weak link on the team last season, so the answer was to swap your LG and C so they are both playing positions they are weaker at?
I think the price tags in FA gave them sticker shock and the draft board in Rd1 became a blood bath before their pick taking their top targets off the board. They tried to trade out, but were up against the clock and just defaulted to their board by selecting Hampton. This roster was not in a place where a RD1 RB was the finishing piece target. That started the domino effect for the rest of the draft.
I, like you, am scratching my head about the inability to address the center position. The time to do it was in last year’s draft. There were players available in the mid rounds. The un-founded dedication to Bozeman is frustrating. If I have to watch another season of Zion/Brad standing in their ready-stance while stunting linemen wiz by them…. Not sure my liver can take that. I can see the plan at every other position. Interior OL…. WTF are they doing? For a team that views OL as a “weapon,” they are not very focused on securing ammunition.
@kevdiego
What do you see as the plan at IDL?
Per OTC, the Chargers are spending the 2nd lowest cap total on IDL in the league. Only the 49ers are lower.
It could be the least talented IDL group in the league. The Chargers will likely have these players on their 53 man roster, barring injuries:
Hand – 2018 4th round pick (118)
Tart – 2020 UDFA
Jones – 2021 UDFA
Eboigbe – 2024 4th round pick (105)
Campbell – 2025 3rd round pick (86)
They could also have Ogbonnia, if they choose to go with a 6th IDL:
Ogbonnia – 2022 5th round pick (160)
None of these players other than Eboigbe and Campbell are under contract beyond 2025.
Meanwhile, they let their best IDL in 2024, Ford, leave to sign a contract with the Rams that the Chargers could have afforded. Ford was the 5th highest graded IDL player in the league in 2024 according to PFF.
@evolz3737
They had no choice but to “throw multiple resources at it.” They let their best IDL and their best IDL pass rusher walk. I don’t give credit for doing what has to be done with a bargain shopper approach.
It’s great to jump on opportunity when it presents itself, particularly in a cap-constrained offseason like last year. But it is not appropriate to count on solving roster challenges with late offseason castoffs from other teams. It can work out great, but that would be bad process.
It’s hard for me to believe Hortiz and Harbaugh are not smarter than that.
Yes you have. I thought it could and should be faster than that, but I did not anticipate that Hortiz would approach free agency the same way with a huge amount of cap space as he did last offseason with a limited amount of cap space.
I don’t agree with this being the exclusive approach, and I think it will cap the Chargers’ ceiling if it continues in future offseasons.
@tau837
They really liked Eboigbe in the draft and by all accounts, his body has been transformed by Ben Herbert. I didn’t see enough of him last year to have an opinion one way or another, but the team is definitely expecting him to step up.
Caldwell has size and quickness. Excited to see what he can become
I thought Tart was very good in 2024. He’s still only 28 – reasonable to think that he can take a step forward in 2025
That’s three players that I think will have better seasons than Bozeman and Johnson. At interior DL, the Chargers added a 6th round tackle who they want to convert and a journeyman former UDFA who signed for the vet minimum. I can make a case for the interior DL being better in 2025. I do not see any upgrades (or even potential upgrades) at C or LG.
@kevdiego
Cool, I will agree to disagree with you that this is a good plan for IDL. I think it is a terrible plan, and I expect this to be the weakest position group on the team. I am interested to see how much that downgrades the defensive performance year over year.
Rolling back the same two dudes who could not pick up a stunt to save their lives is not a good plan at LG and C. I don’t see how swapping positions is going to solve the problem. While it would be great if a 6th round rookie tackle could upgrade the LG position and I would love to see 2023 James upgrade the Center position. I just don’t think any of those represents a realistic plan to upgrade.
I’m not super-confident in the IDL plan. I just see it as a viable plan vs. the LG/C deck chair shuffle.
As much as you doubt the plan for the IOL, IMO the plan for the IDL is worse and will be equally as impactful.
Johnson is talented and Bozeman has had his moments. They were clearly outmatched by good DCs. Maybe that’s coaching, maybe that’s the players football IQ. Not changing the players or the coaches who mentally could not perform against quality DCs is not a good plan going into a season where you’re playing more quality teams.
You can argue that the IDL got worse in 2025, and you may be right. You can’t argue that the team made changes trying to get better. At C and LG, there were no changes in either personnel or coaching (unless you consider a 6th round tackle conversion project or a league-minimum vet as changes in who’s going to be on the field in 2025).
No change = status quo as a plan (which I am translating into “no plan”).
@kevdiego
That’s not really the same logic, and I know you know that. 😉
@kevdiego
Dude. Do you think anyone is arguing with you here that the IOL was great last year? Do you think anyone here is happy that they are rolling with Zion and Bozeman?
We know how you feel about it. We feel the same way. What do you want out of this exchange?
I wanted the team to keep Poona, but heading into last year none of us were really predicting his breakout nor that the entire DT group would perform as solidly as they did. So if Minter and his coaches think Tart/Hand/Naquan/Tito/Eboigbe/Caldwell is a deeper, bigger and stronger group than last year’s (which they’ve continually said this offseason), I trust them. They’ve earned the benefit of the doubt.
On the IOL:
I like the upgrade at RG. Becton has had some problems with his weight fluctuating and staying healthy, but if he stays healthy, he’s a massive upgrade.
I don’t like the plan for the other two spots. Zion at Center I can at least dare to dream since we’ve never seen it before. I have below average expectations of Bozeman as a LG and it limits the types of runs we can call IMO.
I don’t trust Mike Devlin as an OL coach. Nothing he’s shown me tells me he’s in the same league as many of Harbaugh’s other position coaches.
So even before reading Ryan’s article, I feel pretty good about this DT group and pretty unsure about the IOL. Andre James could be the dark horse. I certainly hope so.
@alisterlloyd
On the IOL:
RG Zion – Becton is a clear upgrade.
C Bozeman – Zion or James could be an upgrade; worst case should be status quo with Bozeman.
LG Pipkins – Most likely, Zion continues at LG, so status quo; if Zion moves to C, LG could be downgraded from Zion to Bozeman, but hard for me to see that as much of a downgrade.
Most likely, that is an upgrade to 1/3 of the IOL, with the rest staying the same.
On the IDL (primary players):
Ford – replaced by… who, Jones? Big downgrade.
Tart – status quo, but presumably more snaps.
Fox – replaced by… who, Hand? Probably an upgrade at run defense and downgrade at pass rush. So… a wash? a mild upgrade?
Ogbonnia – replaced by Campbell; should be a long term upgrade, hard to assume that in Campbell’s rookie season.
Eboigbe – but he played just 26 snaps last season and is an unknown.
One of the things I haven’t seen talked about much is ability to play defensive snaps. Last season, Chargers IDL players played a combined 2354 snaps. Hand, Jones, Tart, and Eboigbe combined to play 1202 snaps. Campbell played 528 in college last season, but can he play that many as a NFL rookie? Those are the 5 core players in this position group. This will require a big step up in snaps for them.
Overall, this unit looks downgraded and risky.
So, IOL looks upgraded, and IDL looks downgraded. We’ll see.
I guess this is one of those situations where even if I might agree with you on paper that IOL looks modestly upgraded and IDL modestly downgraded, I still feel better about the sum of the parts on the IDL:
I think it’s easier for Minter to get creative with his defensive fronts (rotating DTs in-and-out, calling blitzes, etc) then it is for Roman to ‘scheme around’ his IOL deficiencies (should they materialise) and they will find a combination that works effectively
One example is Minter can use Tuli as a stand-up interior rusher to replace Fox in known passing situations (if he wants to) with Kennard playing the Edge.
Is it unreasonable to think one, or a combination, of Hand, Jones, Eboigbe and Jamaree Caldwell will approximate Poona’s impact last season?
I think you might be right that there will be a downgrade in that respect. Two ways of reacting to this thogh (one positive, one negative):
The Defense finished #1 in Points Allowed last season. Losing Poona won’t cause a precipitous drop down the rankings when most of the Defense otherwise remains intact. As a result, we should feel better about the DTs than we do the IOL.
The Defense finished 27th in Rush Yards Allowed per attempt and losing Poona will be the straw that broke the camel’s back.
I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way to feel about this topic. For me, as I said, a lot boils down to me trusting that if Minter can take twoLeague afterthoughts like Poona and Tart and turn them into studs, he can do the same with at least one of the newbies in this year’s group. (It probably doesn’t hurt that I liked Jamaree Caldwell’s college tape). We’ll soon see!
While that is great and amazing, consider that they finished:
#1 1 in yards allowed and yards per play allowed
#7 in passing yards allowed and #1 4 in rushing yards allowed
#1 2 in turnover percentage and #1 3 in turnovers forced
That is a lot closer to middle of the pack than #1 , obviously. It seems quite likely that part of why they finished #1 in total points was due to their easy schedule. Another part was probably luck, which can break either way in any given season.
The Chargers are expected to have a much harder schedule this season. Even if they still had Ford and Bosa, I would expect regression.
I think saying the IDL is modestly downgraded is understating it. For whatever reason, no one wants to give Fox any credit, but he led the IDL with 32 pressures; Poona had 25, meaning those two combined for 57. Hand and Jones combined for 24. That is a huge downgrade in interior pass rush.
As it was, I have read somewhere that the Chargers had trouble getting pressure without blitzing. It’s only going to get worse now, at least unless you think Kennard will be much better than Bosa was.
Yes, I think it is unreasonable. Ford was PFF’s 5th highest graded IDL in the league last year, 3rd highest in run defense. No, I do not think any of the players you named will come close to his individual performance.
It is also worth noting that having to use multiple players to attempt to approximate his performance is already a downgrade… last season, he provided his performance in 652 snaps; the players who played the other 516 snaps that he didn’t play also contributed some amount of positive plays.
Bottom line, I think the defensive performance will be worse this season, and the Chargers offense is going to have to compensate.
Congrats on your 4th season! Time sure flies.
Al, I’m pumped about Gadsden too, think he’s gonna really be a benefit to Herbert and the overall offense. Let’s see what Roman can do with him, Hampton, and Harris.
I’ll go back and finish later. Must admit, you lost me when delving into the Telesco interview. Personally, I don’t care. He’s gone, good riddance to rubbish. Not wasting a minute looking back at what he wasted. Onward and upward.
Slater? Give him the 5yrs, $150M, 100M guaranteed.
Gadsden will always be “my guy”. Each offseason, I scout a handful of players whose tape moves me to the point of vocal exclamation. Gadsden at Syracuse was one of those guys and Ryan and I both thought he was flying under the radar amongst the draft analyst community. As Tau says below, he will have to fight for playing time early in his career. But I am optimistic that he can becomes one of the steals of the class. A future as a genuine TE1 is not beyond him if he keeps wording on the blocking side of his game.
Fair enough on the Telesco talk. Tbh, I thought we were a little rusty yday overall and could have done a better job and relating that segment to how Hortiz operates to make it more relevant. We’ll round into regular season form by September 😉