We’ve just released Episode 128 of the Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast.
Our synopsis is below:
Heading into TNF against the Minnesota Vikings in Wk 8, the Chargers had won only 1 of their previous 4 games. But with superstar left tackle, Joe Alt, returning from injury – and wearing their Navy “Super Chargers” gear – the Bolts responded as any well-coached football team with playoff aspirations should. By half-time, they’d taken a 21-3 lead at home.
And in the second half, they rubbed salt into Carson Wentz’s wounds, storming home to a 37-10 annihilation of the Kevin O’Connell’s visiting Vikes. In a balanced team effort, Kimani Vidal led the way on Offense with 117 yds on the ground (his second +100 rushing yd feat in the past three weeks), Herbert passed for 3 TDs, and the Charger Defense enjoyed 5 sacks in a powerhouse performance. Join us today as we break down this comfortable win before answering some fan questions about the 5-3 Bolts in our #TDUMailbag segment. Don’t miss it!
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Hope you enjoy the episode! Thanks so much for listening 🙂
Alister (@TDU_Alister)
Thanks to Andy for thanking me for my questions. I love interacting with you guys.
Good show, guys.
IMO the difference in performance in the previous 4 game stretch and this game was incredible and illustrates that a single elite player like Alt and Mack can elevate entire offensive and defensive units.
Al said he thought the “most of the offensive line most of the time” played well, characterizing it as a “solid performance.” IMO that is a bit of an overstatement.
Al said he didn’t think Herbert was pressured on 60% of his dropbacks, so I watched for that in watching the film.
Dropbacks in order:
1 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
2 – Pressure – Hurry (competion) – this one might be debatable; Herbert stepped up and completed to Allen, but maybe that was his choice and not forced…
3 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
4 – No pressure – Ball immediately out of his hands on short pass to McConkey in the flat
5 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
6 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
7 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble)
8 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
9 – No pressure – Good protection
10 – No pressure – Good protection
11 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble)
12 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble) – bootleg in the red zone; not sure if this is officially a hurry, but he certainly could not stop to scan for targets and had to run
13 – No pressure – Herbert rolled to stay out of pressure
14 – No pressure – Borderline, close to a pressure
15 – Pressure – Sack
16 – Pressure – Hurry (throwaway)
17 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
18 – No pressure – Good protection, ball out quickly
19 – No pressure – Good protection, ball out quickly
20 – Pressure – Hurry (completion)
21 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble)
22 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble)
23 – No pressure – Good protection
24 – No pressure – Good protection
25 – Pressure – Hurry (TD) – calling this a hurry because Herbert’s follow through hit by defender
26 – No pressure – Bootleg
27 – No pressure – Good protection, ball out quickly (slant)
28 – Pressure – QB hit (knockdown)
29 – Pressure – Hurry (interception)
30 – Pressure – Hurry (incomplete)
31 – No pressure – Good protection
32 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble)
33 – Pressure – Hurry (scramble) – this one might be debatable
34 – Pressure – Hurry (TD)
35 – Pressure – sack
So I totaled: 35 dropbacks, 23 pressures (2 sacks; 7 QB hits, all knockdowns; 14 hurries, 7 of which turned into scrambles); and 12 dropbacks with no pressure.
PFF had 34 dropbacks, so maybe there was a penalty on one of the plays I charted. PFF charted 22 dropbacks under pressure, with 4 of those being scrambles, so they apparently thought 3 of his scrambles were not driven by pressure. I could see that. That implies they viewed 2 of his non-scramble dropbacks under pressure that I didn’t.
Anyway, while I am clearly not an expert charter of pressure off the All 22, I think PFF’s take that 22 of 34 dropbacks (~65%) were under pressue is correct, or very close.
Maybe you are disagreeing with PFF’s metrics on pressures, but they show the IOL with 12 pressures allowed (LG Zion 2, C Bozeman 3, RG Sarell 6, RG Becton 1). They had LT Alt allowing 2, presumably with zero help, and RT Hart allowing 1, but with a lot of help. Others (non-OL) combined for 3 pressures allowed.
Meanwhile, the RBs got 106 of their 145 rushing yards after contact. That means, on average, the blocking kept the RB untouched for 1.1 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
So… does all of that represent a solid OL performance?
I’m only partially through the podcast, but posting this part now.
Kudos for charting all of these, Tau!
This is highlighting some of the limitations of my approach to watching All-22. I have a 4 hour window each week to (a) watch the whole film (usually 90 mins in length), (b) choose 10-12 interesting plays to post about on X, (c) choose 2-3 interesting plays for YouTube Shorts, (d) take all of my notes on both sides of the ball. Sometimes I also have The Wiggles on in the background and my little 1 year old squawking for my attention!
I do my best to rewind most plays, trying to understand the concept being run, the coverage, each player’s responsibility. But it’s a really big task. I think I see the game reasonably well, but it won’t be anywhere near as accurate as the exercise you’ve just done. Sometimes I set myself a specific task like I did last week (eg, count the number of run plays where Minter was in a two-high shell with 4 DL) but more often than not I’m trying to evaluate 11 guys on one play simultaneously.
I think what led me to believe that the OL performance was better than those numbers suggest was:
Hurries are pressures too, but less detrimental to the team. Whether allowing fewer hits this week was a product of game plan, Herbert’s virtuoso efforts, or the OL doing a better job can definitely be debated. But I think we’ve identified why I didn’t think 60% felt right!
FWIW, I didn’t think very much of the run blocking from Sarell, in particular. Zion had some whiffs early on pulling on power. He got better in the second half. Bozeman was solid sometimes but also inconsistent. So those run blocking stats don’t surprise me nearly as much.
A lot of our successful runs were on trap plays with TEs and FBs executing key blocks. And there was one where Vidal went rogue and ran in the opposite direction to the play design. He also had one excellent run where he got to the Edge even though it wasn’t blocked up perfectly.
I agree with all this. Even in charting this, there were a handful of plays where I thought it was borderline to call it pressure vs. no pressure. I suspect that is the nature of it, meaning there is a very fine line (get the ball out 0.5 seconds quicker; ability on a given play to move capably around or outside the pocket to avoid pressure; etc.).
I see that PFF showed 4 QB hits in week 8, but watching the film, I saw 7. Now, one of them was a player coming in at Herbert’s feet, and he went down but it may fairly not be deemed a hit. But I saw 6 hits where he went down to the ground. So saying there were only 3 (your post) or 4 (what I see at PFF) doesn’t make sense to me. For what it’s worth.
For the exercise I undertook above Tau, I was only looking at hits allowed by the Offensive Line (so excluding RBs & TEs).
Against the Vikes, per PFF:
That’s where I got my numbers from.
Don’t agree with Ye-Na award for Dicker, partially based on missing the 49 yard FG. It has been largely acknowledged that came off a poor snap. For me, i don’t think one kickoff is enough for this award.
Lol at the car keys story.
“I can’t stress enough how good Hortiz is at drafting.” I have posted on this before. I just recently gave him a B-.
I initially had Quentin Johnston down as my answer, but wanted to save that discussion for later in the pod. Fair response on Dicker.
It was slim pickings this week! Who do you think deserved the award?
The car keys story is so annoying:
Sorry for the actual story. This is one reason why I keep my car key separate from my house key. Though it probably has more to do with my lifestyle requirements.
On the OL and DL in the upcoming offseason, Al identified the players under contract for OL, IDL, and Edge.
Jack said he (Hortiz) has done everything he can. I disagree. I posted my pros and cons in your questions thread.
Al indicated the few OL, IDL, and Edge players under contract for 2026. Jack said he is on board with the strategy. He said “you can do your stuff in the draft” and “sign some big boys early” and then assumes re-signing Mack. My question would be, what in Hortiz’s short history with the Chargers would make you think he would handle that well? What makes you think he would “sign some big boys early?
I like Hortiz but I think fans who were exasperated with Telesco are inclined to give Hortiz a pass.
Some Coach’s Film clips from the Vikings game from our X page
Clip 1:
Clip 2:
Clip 3:
Clip 4:
Clip 5:
Clip 6: https://x.com/TDU_Chargers/status/1982953886211248636
Clip 7: https://x.com/TDU_Chargers/status/1982920501766045889
Clip 8: https://x.com/TDU_Chargers/status/1982957498924707851
Clip 9: https://x.com/TDU_Chargers/status/1982963964901470687
Clip 10: https://x.com/TDU_Chargers/status/1982968090007863356
Clip 11: https://x.com/TDU_Chargers/status/1982973678687318243
Love the clips.
Clip 5 is where Zion and Bozeman lose immediately. Alt blocks his guy into Zion’s guy, blocking both dudes. Herbert dodges Bozeman’s guy and hits Ladd. Without Alt, that’s a sack.