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We’ve just released Episode 111 of the Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast.
Our synopsis for Episode 111 is below:
It’s draft season and the gloves are off! In this special crossover episode, Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast locks horns with the Powderkeg Podcast in a no-holds-barred 7-Round Chargers Mock Draft Showdown. Who nails the picks? Who reaches for a punter? And who should be banned from drafting ever again?
Expect bold takes, plenty of banter, a few friendly jabs (okay, not that friendly), and a whole lot of Chargers chaos. We debate strategy, argue over prospects, and try not to completely destroy our friendships by Pick 22. Don’t miss it!
You can also listen on Spotify below (or download on audio wherever you like to listen to podcasts):
As always, you can support us by doing any or all of the following:
– Rec’ing this post and leaving any thoughts/feedback you have in the comments section below.
– Following us on Twitter (and ‘liking’ our tweets) at @TDU_Chargers, or individually, at @TDU_Alister, @TDU_Jack and @TDU_Andy.
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Hope you enjoy the episode! Thanks so much for listening 
Alister (@TDU_Alister)
Enjoyable show. I wrote out comments as I watched.
Comments on TDU draft:
- 22 – TE Colston Loveland
- 55 – G Tate Ratledge
- 86 – RB Damien Martinez
- 125 – WR Kyle Williams
- 158 – DI Ty Robinson
- 181 – S Craig Woodson
- 199 – C Jake Majors
- 209 – CB Zah Frazier
- 214 – G Garrett Dellinger
- 256 – Edge Collin Oliver
I really strongly dislike the Ratledge pick:
- Steven at GAC devoted an entire episode to walking back his previous enthusiasm over Ratledge due to his extensive injury history Steven later discovered, which goes beyond the tightrope surgery.
- I don’t like the positional value of a guard in the 2nd round to compete at LG with all of Zion, Pipkins, Bozeman, and James. Not when the Chargers need starters or very strong contributors at IDL, Edge, and RB, and to lesser degree perhaps at CB.
- I would rather have Miles Frazier later (although I am skeptical Frazier will make it to the 6th round).
I don’t like the Dellinger pick. I don’t like drafting a 3rd IOL in this draft when the team already has 8 OL seemingly locked in for the final 53 man roster, barring injury: LT Slater, RT Alt, RG Becton, IOL Bozeman, IOL Zion, IOL James, OL Pipkins, OL Salyer. The team might only keep 9 but certainly won’t keep more than 10. So this pick guarantees that one of these 11 players, presumably Dellinger, Majors, or Salyer, won’t make the final roster. I realize it is probably okay if a 6th round pick doesn’t make the final roster, but I would not knowingly overload like that. Not having mostly ignored defense. If you had not drafted Ratledge, then the other two picks are fine. Having drafted Ratledge, IMO Dellinger was a wasted pick.
I generally like the rest of the picks, and really like some of them (Loveland, Williams, Majors, Oliver). But the Ratledge pick coming so early really hurts this draft for me.
Comments on PK draft:
- 22 – TE Colston Loveland
- 55 – RB TreVeyon Henderson
- 86 – DI Jamaree Caldwell
- 125 – WR Konata Mumpfield
- 158 – S Malachi Moore
- 181 – CB Zah Frazier
- 199 – G Miles Frazier
- 209 – WR Kaden Prather
- 214 – DI Howard Cross
- 256 – LB Aaron Smith
I like the Loveland, Henderson, and Miles Frazier picks. I don’t like the Mumpfield pick and would have made different picks at some of the later spots.
If I could combine these drafts, here is what I would prefer:
- 22 – TE Colston Loveland
- 55 – RB TreVeyon Henderson
- 86 – DI Jamaree Caldwell
- 125 – WR Kyle Williams
- 158 – G Miles Frazier — don’t believe he will last to 6th round
- 181 – S Craig Woodson
- 199 – C Jake Majors
- 209 – CB Zah Frazier
- 214 – DI Ty Robinson — would take both Robinson and Cam Jackson over Cross and both were available on your board
- 256 – Edge Collin Oliver
Having said this, I have observed in multiple mock drafts conducted on PFF that there are often players available at picks where I don’t think will be available. Like Jalon Walker at 22, Miles Frazier at 199, Ty Robinson and Cam Jackson at 214, and Oliver at 256. So I am skeptical how realistic these drafts really are.
But they are fun! Thanks for doing them and sharing with us.
@tau837 Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the show. Definitely challenging making it work across three international time zones but we had fun with it.
I think the TDU Draft highlighted a few things:
- How more voices in the room mightn’t always be a good thing? These Mock Draft exercises are artificial, of course, because in reality the Draft Board would be established beforehand and there would be very minimal (if any) “arguing” within the war room especially while your team is on the clock! But it does show how it can be difficult to reach a consensus position on any player, and especially if one of your key decision-makers (here, Jack) has a bias for certain position (OL) or body types (massive humans haha).
- What a Draft class looks like where the Offense is heavily prioritised. If you’ve got concerns about Ratledge you could replace him with Donovan Jackson in your mind for the same thought exercise. A couple weeks ago you said you’d easily take a Top 5 Offense over a Top 5 Defense. Has this Draft got the team closer to having a Top 5 Offense? Minter and his coaches have shown themselves to be exemplary in Yr 1 and could they survive with the current roster, still producing at least league adverage results on Defense? Although not addressing DT/Edge/CB until Day 3 might seem criminally negligent, there are also post-Draft player acquisition channels to consider. Could the All-In on Offense approach work?
- Is Trey Pipkins a roster lock? In this scenario, taking 3 OL makes Pipkins more expendable. Could Hortiz trade Pipkins post-Draft and then use the savings to assist with making a post-Draft trade for a talented Edge (eg, Trey Hendrickson?)
This is all probably me just coping with walking away with a somewhat ludicrously lop-sided draft haul, but it’s worth thinking about just in case it happens! 😋
@alisterlloyd Thanks, Alister.
Agree that too many voices isn’t good. I remember we had that story after the 2023 draft that Telesco, Staley, and Moore all wanted different WRs and settled on Johnston, which sounded like 3+ voices (IIRC the WR coach also weighed in). IIRC Moore won the debate by saying Johnston could be the Chargers’ Lamb… which may go to show that the only voices that should matter during the live draft are those of Hortiz and Harbaugh (with Hortiz as Batman and Harbaugh as Robin, as they have put it in the past). I assume they will be on the same page in real time.
I would definitely prefer Jackson to Ratledge, so that would be better for sure. But I don’t want Jackson there, either. My positional value comment holds. IMO in the TDU draft, you guys should have taken either RB Henderson or the best IDL/Edge player. Even if you went RB there, then you could have gone with IDL/Edge in the 3rd.
Sure, generically I would rather have a top 5 offense. But the Chargers had a top defense and below average offense in 2024. I would not agree with trying to use one draft to get from last year’s offense to a top 5 offense in 2025… I doubt that is possible without a lot of luck, especially not with Roman as OC, since he alone probably drags the offense down by several ranking spots independent of talent.
I’m reminded of an axiom sometimes referenced in business. Suppose you are in position to make an investment of resources in an area led by one employee only, but you have two employees leading different business areas, where those two areas are equally important to the business. One employee is a stellar performer and the other is an average to below average performer. Where do you make your investment? In the stellar performer. That is Minter in this analogy.
The analogy isn’t perfect when applied to a football team like the Chargers. I think balance is warranted and context matters.
I think some very important context sometimes gets a bit overlooked in the zeal to get Herbert better surrounding talent on offense. Entering the draft:
- How does the 2025 offense compare to the 2024 offense?
- Clear upgrade at RG (Becton over Pipkins)
- Likely upgrade at IOL depth since 2 of Zion, Bozeman, James, Pipkins will start at LG and C and the other 2 plus Salyer will be backups
- Clear upgrade at TE 1a/1b to pair with Dissly (Conklin over Hurst/Smartt)
- Probable upgrade at RB (Harris plus rookie draft pick vs. Dobbins/Edwards)
- Probable upgrade at X WR (Williams over Chark/Johnston/Palmer) when Williams is healthy
- This could also lead to an upgrade at Z WR, since that is likely better suited to Johnston, who should play fewer snaps at X
- Overall, entering the draft, the offense has been at least moderately upgraded already
- How does the 2025 defense compare to the 2024 defense?
- Significant downgrade at Edge (Bosa gone, no legit replacement so far)
- Apparent significant downgrade at IDL (Ford and Fox replaced with Hand and Jones)
- Unknown change at CB (Fulton, ASJ replaced by Jackson, St. Juste), could go either way… even if we assume Minter, et al. coach them up, probably more likely a lateral move than an upgrade, but a downgrade is within the spectrum of possibilities
- Status quo at LB and S
- Overall, entering the draft, the defense has been significantly downgraded
So… entering the draft, as much as I want to upgrade offensive talent, I think it is imperative to address defensive line at least once on day 1 or 2 if not twice. Certainly before the 5th round.
I follow your point on Pipkins. Could he be traded, sure. But right now I expect him to be the swing tackle. The possibility of trading him does not change my opinion about drafting 2 guards and 1 center, because it leaves the Chargers with some combination of 4-5 of Zion, Bozeman, James, Salyer, Ratledge/Donovan, Majors, Derringer as depth… none of whom seemingly make a great swing tackle.
Plus, what’s the point of trading Pipkins now? They already don’t have anything to spend their available cap space on unless they trade for Mark Andrews (or I suppose Goedert). At this point, I don’t see any advantage in adding more cap space in exchange for shorting the team in tackle depth.
@tau837 One of your better comments I can remember reading, Tau. Thanks very much.
Sorry, I’m in the car and probably wont’ respond in detail, but enjoyed reading each of your points (and I hadn’t heard that axiom before!).
@alisterlloyd Thanks for the compliment.
Regarding the axiom, of course, all business situations must be evaluated on their own merits. But the point of the axiom is that many people might be intuitively inclined to invest in the weaker area to bolster it… or split the investment evenly in the interest of being fair (which is a silly concept in business)… but it often maximizes the benefit of the investment to further invest in the stronger area.
This is from Gallup, but I think there is a lot of material on this:
The strengths-based organization does not ignore weaknesses, but rather achieves optimization, where talents are focused and built upon and weaknesses are understood and managed. It is the practice of taking behavior or a process from the +10 to +40 rather than working from -10 to -4 with about the same amount of effort. Weaknesses may diminish with training, but the efficiency is less than when one focuses on talents.
I agree with a ton of these sentiments, if not all.
Miles Frazier is interesting. The last couple of drafts, the “no brainer” late round picks definitely seem to jet up the board. Zak Zinter was one of those players last year IMO, and no brainer where he was consistently getting mocked, around the 6th round as well I believe. I wouldnt be surprised at all if Frazier, like Zinter, ends up getting snagged in the 3rd.
Realistically I’d take Ty Robinson over Howard Cross too – I think Ryan would as well, but I really don’t think he’ll be available at 214. Like we discussed, part of not picking him was just to goof on the guys and act like we were passing him, the other was just to point out that Howard Cross seems to be a guy that can replace Fox on defense and Matlock on offense (just based on them working him out at FB), but we’re not attached to the pick at all.
The more of these drafts I do, the more I want to trade down and up into the third and early 4th. I’m really not a fan of the picks at 1.22 if Loveland isnt there. I wouldnt be shocked at all if the Chargers trade down.
If they do, and if Sanders falls like I think he will, it would be very interesting if the Chargers are in a position for another small trade down. I think Sanders will fall in the draft, but one of the top-ten drafting teams will trade back into the first so they can have the 5th year option on Sanders. Just a fun hunch, and it gives us a chance to trade down twice and still land someone like Higgins, I’d be bouncing off the walls.
FWIW, Popper released his Mock 4.0, which I really don’t like very much. Relevant to this thread:
- G Ratledge at 55
- IDL Robinson at 86!
- S Woodson at 209
I like the Woodson pick, but I strongly dislike his draft, which concerns me, since his 4.0 version is supposed to be his best guess at reality.
FWIW I just read in the GAC discord that both RB Martinez and WR Williams have character concerns. I don’t know what those concerns are so take it with many grains of salt.
@tau837 I am interested to see if the new regime has any appetite for players with off field concerns? We know under Telesco that any whiff of off field concerns would be enough to remove them from the draft board. I’m not talking Jalen Carter or Reuben Foster level stuff, but small things like you hear about Nolen or McMillan. I am more inclined to think that this regime actually has the leadership to assuage these concerns, but we need a few more drafts as a sample size. So far, as far as I know, the drafted players have been clean.
@evolz3737 I’d like to think that this staff, and team, are strong enough leaders and humans to guide and mentor these kids….because they ARE still kids….through immaturity issues. Obviously I wouldn’t want guys who have been credibly hit with more serious issues but not every red flag is at full mast.
I’m conflicted on this issue.
My youngest (of 2) daughters turned 11 today. I would find it very difficult to root for a team that enabled a player that beat his girlfriend and drug her by the hair out of an elevator. As a guy from a town that lost a football team, I used to have a lot of sympathy for the Browns. The whole Deshawn Watson fiasco made me hate the Browns. Fuck them. They’re getting what they deserve.
On the other hand, I do agree that these are young kids with a lot thrown at them. I guess I draw the line at hitting women, serially committing stupid offenses or lack of dedication to football. Cases where there is a single allegation with no chargers filed (like Araiza) I could overlook. It would take a lot for me root for Kareem Hunt and I will never root for Watson.
@kevdiego Agree on Hunt and Watson. Couldn’t root for them. The Browns were incredibly stupid to trade for Watson and give him that contract. I would say that is the dumbest decision in NFL history.
I couldn’t root for Michael Vick either after his dogfighting issues were discovered. I refused to ever have any of these players on any of my fantasy teams, which is a useless but gratifying form of protest.
I don’t know what the alleged issues for Martinez or Williams. If I knew about them, maybe I would be okay with writing them off to immaturity, but it depends on what the issues are.
I think Martinez was arrested for DUI and there are questions about Williams effort. While I recognize that driving under the influence can have catastrophic consequences, I think I’m more inclined to overlook one instance of poor judgement over an ongoing play effort issue.
And, yea, the Watson trade/contract could possibly be the worst decision in NFL history. I think the Spanos family leaving San Diego was a pretty bad decision which arguably forced the team to pinch pennies in their early years in LA. But the Watson fiasco has fucked the Browns for a decade. They need to eat that shit-burger now, trade Garrett for whatever they can get, then start over with a rookie QB in 2026 (Arch Manning?).
@tau837 I wasn’t expecting to read a dogfighting call-out today! I basically agree with what both of you have said about character issues in these posts.
The dogfighting one is maybe a little more problematic to me to the extent it could be viewed as a socio-cultural/socioeconomic issue. Vick being a product of what he’s been exposed to and has become normalised for him. But you could make that argument about more serious things like drugs and gun violence too. So I get it if that’s where you’ve drawn the line.
@alisterlloyd Bottom line, I have a dog. I have had dogs before this one, going back at least 25 years. I cannot abide anyone who treats dogs like Vick did. Fuck him. Sorry, that’s how I feel about it, and I feel very strongly about it.
@tau837 I am not an animal owner, but just the thought that you could normalize severely mistreating and training an innocent animal to kill for sport for your pleasure and then discarding them like they are not living things is just unfathomable to me. Whether it is a socio economic issue or not, some things humans know are inherently wrong and having that much lack of empathy for another living thing is not something that should need to be learned. He only gave a shit once his lifestyle and future earnings were in jeopardy. If he wouldn’t have been caught he would still be doing it. He’s a fraud.
Before we moved to Atlanta (in 2011), Vick lived in our neighborhood. Everyone I’ve met that knew him then said he was a nice guy/good neighbor.
But… The dog thing bothers me too. I don’t hunt, but I get hunting. I trap rodents (squirrels are always trying to chew their way into our attic). I don’t like killing living things, but I understand it and do it when I have to. I know that when I trap a rodent, I’m trying to make the process as humane as possible.
I think the issue with dog fighting is the animal suffering the animals endure for the entertainment of the people watching. I don’t understand how you could enjoy that. So, yea, dog fighting is pretty fucked up.
Final point. Cruelty to animals is fucked up. Cruelty/Violence to humans is worse. Ray Lewis (allegedly) murdered a person. If true, that’s far more fucked up. Deshawn Watson is a serial sexual abuser.
Here’s a “fun” fact about the Vick dogfighting enterprise, Bad Newz Kennels. It was located in Surry County VA where I was living and just sold my farm. I met Vick when he was building the place. Big house up front near the road to attract attention, black painted outbuildings in the woods to avoid same.
Local law enforcement was involved in it….sheriff and the county commonwealth’s attorney. That’s why the feds stepped in. Otherwise it would have all gone away.
@buck-melanoma Anytime you see a “Z” used where an “S” is supposed to be in a name, that should be an immediate red flag.
@evolz3737 Bad Newz is the nickname for Newport News, Vick’s hometown….and my birthplace.
@buck-melanoma No disrespect Buck. I did not know that. I thought it was a sly variation of “News” to represent a shady aspect to it. I am familiar with Newport News. Wasn’t Iverson from there as well?
@evolz3737 none taken at all, my friend. Yes, Iverson is a Newport News native, as is one of the most phenomenal bass players I’ve ever seen, Victor Wootten.
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