[et_pb_section admin_label=”section”]
[et_pb_row admin_label=”row”]
[et_pb_column type=”4_4″][et_pb_text admin_label=”Text”]
I could have put this in the Popper Hopper but felt it might not get attention there. Hence, this new postseason thread. I’d like it to spark discussion regarding what went right and wrong, what we think needs to happen moving forward, etc.
Starting it off with this article from Popper. Let me just say, for my part? I am 110% behind Justin Herbert. Do I have some questions? Yeah, I do, and if this thread leads to more discussion I’ll air them. But I believe in him, believe he’s the guy who can bring us the Lombardi. Tough loss and no one but Justin can shrug this monkey off his back and silence the critics. I’m banking that he will.
Thanks for starting the thread Buck. I wasn’t ready for the offseason to start, so this may come off as a bit of a vent:
Regarding Herbert, I think the guy is supremely talented. The physical gifts are just amazing. The challenge now for the Chargers organization is translating those gifts into championships. Here’s a few ideas:
- Find a center with a high football IQ. Linsley was not only a good player, he was great at calling protections. The offensive line was repeatedly out-smarted by defensive schemes. That shit needs to stop. Herbert has to read coverages. The center needs to call out blocking assignments. Bozeman is fucking horrible at it. This organization needs to find Herbert’s version of Nick Hardwick. Competent center play will significantly improve the guard play. The “book” on Herbert is to collapse the middle of the pocket. Defenses are going to attack that. The team needs to counter.
- Draft a play-making RB. Dobbins had his moments, but I don’t trust his injury history. Vidal is great when he hits a crease at full-speed, but he tends to chop his feet and goes down with first contact (he’s a slightly better version of Kelley). Gus looks cooked. They need a young, fast, play-making RB. This should be a mid-round priority
- Draft a TE early. Dissley should be in the Tucker Fisk role. Stone Smart is TE3. A receiving threat that can block is a draft priority
- Find a WR2 to compliment McConkey. QJ needs to be WR3 – he can’t be on the field on 3rd down because he can’t fucking catch the football consistently. If you’re going to bobble and drop shit, don’t do it on 3rd down. I like what I saw from Davis late, but not sure that translates into WR2. Palmer (can’t stay on the field) and Chark are gone. Maybe Rice develops, but I would not bank on that. Finding a WR2 in either the draft of FA is a priority.
- Coaching consistency. I’m not sure Shane Day was aligned with Roman. At minimum, there had to be some scheme disagreement early in the season. The staff needs to be on the same page (I actually think I would prefer Day’s schemes over Roman’s, but Kevin’s opinion doesn’t mean a thing – Roman will be the guy in 2025).
@kevdiego agree with everything you’ve said here. If there’s any one place where I think the front office fell short in the draft it’s not addressing the center position. I’ll be pissed about that until there’s a guy there who makes me forget. Everything you said about Linsley, calling blocking assignments, elevating the guard play, inside pressure….all true and all critical.
Gotta get another pass catching TE. Dissly was better at receiving than I expected but that’s still not good enough. I probably like Smartt much better than some here but his blocking must improve….or switch him to WR. I think he could fill a Vincent Jackson-ish role with more reps. He runs decent routes and has very good hands. QJ? Unfortunately I see continued inconsistency there. Thx Telesco and Lil Johnny. 🖕🖕
I’d prefer Roman gone but not likely. And yes….invest at least a third in a stud, 215-220ish RB who can catch.
@buck-melanoma There has been some discussion on various podcasts about the “worst” FA signing. The argument usually came down to DJ Chark vs. Hayden Hurst. I have a counter-argument:
I think the worst FA signing was Bozeman. While he did stay on the field and seems like a good dude, he fucking sucks as a starting NFL center. The team depending on him to start was a huge mistake and I agree with you that this was the one clear miss by the front office. By signing Bozeman, Hortiz ticked the Center box and moved on. Horrible decision. Bad signing.
@kevdiego @buck-melanoma I think you both lay out the most glaring needs on offense, which need to be addressed, however I think the defensive needs might be more important. Let’s face it, the defense was the best unit on the team and was more of a reason we had the season we did. I would not focus all the offseason attention on the offense if we want the defense to stay as stout as it was this season. There is a real possibility we lose both Bosa and Mack and also Fulton, Molden, Ford, Tart and Perryman. That is a ton of starting positions for a top defense.
I am a believer that in the modern NFL, your defense starts with the pass rush. In order for the defense to be as effective next season as it was this year, this is the area of greatest need. Dupree and Tuli are not going to bring the same level of talent or juice to the edge room if they are counted on to be the starters next season and unless they are planning on finding an Aaron Donald or Chris Jones type IDL to create the havoc, this position needs to be addressed early. It is rare to find this type of explosive edge presence in FA, so this would most likely need to be addressed in Rd1 of the draft. For this reason I could see either Bosa OR Mack returning to continue some level of elite presence there.
As we just saw in the playoff game, having elite CB talent also doesn’t hurt. While Fulton was not spectacular all season, I think he can be a good piece to a CB room as a CB2, which leaves CB1 as yet another hole. Still has excelled in the slot, and Hart was great, but his injuries are concerning. IMO, the CB room should be New CB1, Fulton/Vet CB, Hart, Still, Leonard, New CB6. I don’t see ASJ back and Taylor would be my first cut of the offseason. Safety still has Derwin and Gilman, and I think Molden has done enough to return. Definitely need another body or two here, but it’s not as dire.
LB needs a few bodies also. Perryman was a difference in run defense, so he will either need to return or need to be replaced. Colson should get a bigger role, but I do not see him as a Perryman replacement. Dye and Niemann are also FA, so just for ST and depth purposes a few new faces are needed here.
Like I said in other posts, many people think this team is a draft away from real contention, but we have a ton of spots to fill on both sides, that were held together with band aid signings in 2024. Unless we can get some solid permanent bodies for most of these spots this season, I think we are more likely 2 drafts away from a real SB window.
@evolz3737 all fair points. I did respond to Kev’s comments about the offense. His post being offense-centric likely came from the topic that started this thread….Herbert’s post-season performance.
You’re right, there are current needs on the D and quite possibly more will open up. Mack may retire though I’m sure he’s loathe to go out on this loss. Bosa, even though younger, should probably consider it given his injury history.
It’s going to be very interesting to see how Hortiz addresses this off-season with more cap room and a season here under his belt.
@buck-melanoma Could not agree more. The offseason will be fascinating from a team building perspective IMO. Especially after watching the season unfold, I wonder if Harbs and Hortiz view the weaknesses and necessities the same as we do. After all, not many expected Alt at pick #5 last year, and the rumor was Brian Thomas was going to be the selection if Alt wasn’t there. I still think this team is 2 drafts away from a real SB push, so I wonder if they go about the draft and FA that way continuing to use the priority capital to build the core in the trenches over the skill positions? I think this offseason team building will give us real insight on where they think this team is at the moment and what the expectations will be next year. Don’t forget, not much was expected of us this year, so it was easy to plug holes with cheap one year deals with the understanding that 2024 was a rebuild year coming off a bad cap situation. Now that the team has established a base line of success it will be interesting if they view the team as a bona fide contender next year and go balls out on FA and the draft, or if they are more reserved and measured in their approach building it like they did last year with an eye on ’26 and beyond.
@evolz3737 if the identity they still want to build is a hard-nosed, run first team then there’s plenty of work left to do on the IOL and at RB. I think TE is also a priority.
I’d love to see a Chris Jones type appear on the defense. And, as you said, Mack and/or Bosa is likely gone.
@buck-melanoma In a way too early look at the draft, take a look at the player pool and our pick at #22… DT is definitely in play. This year, there is a stack of DTs who are late 1st/2nd round talent.
I think an Edge could be in play as well, and I would not be shocked (or mad) if Jeanty was still there and they took him at #22.
Everyone is going to be talking about the two TEs all offseason too, but I personally don’t think they’re worth it at #22.
@blue-beers I’m not stuck on TE at 1.22 but I think either of the top 2 would quickly become Herbert’s new best friend….and 1 or the other is likely gone by our pick.
If DT is deep, why take one at 1.22 unless he’s an absolute monster? Don’t see that guy in this draft. Same for edge IMO. And there’s no way I take a RB at 1.22. I’d look at WR before that. Or even OG.
@buck-melanoma I would be ok with Warren at 22 but I doubt he’ll get past the Broncos at 20 anyways. Loveland is not worth 22, he’s a 2nd round pick IMO.
Jeanty is the best RB prospect in a long time and I’d be totally fine with him at 22. He would change the offense dramatically and take a lot of pressure off of Herbert. He’d get a lot more touches and impact a game more than any TE.
As far as why take a DT at 22? There’s a bunch of good ones that look like they’re in the 15 – 30 BPA range. I don’t think any of the good ones will be left by pick number 54.
@blue-beers I cannot get on board with a RB at 1.22 unless he’s the second coming of LT.
@buck-melanoma Jeanty is probably the best RB prospect since Barkley who was the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson who was the best since LT before that 
BTW, I’m not like deadset on it, I just would be totally fine with it. He is a generational talent, no doubt.
Regarding RB, I think the “just get a committee of guys for your scheme” pendulum swung way too far and all of the smart NFL guys are realizing it. 4 of the 5 best teams in the NFL right now have top tier talent at the RB position. The only team that doesn’t is the Chiefs and they have Mahomes and Andy Reid voodoo.
Especially with the way the Chargers want to play, they need legit young talent at RB, and notably someone who can catch out of the backfield. That was a MAJOR hole this season. Continually drafting mediocre talent in the mid – late rounds isn’t going to cut it.
@buck-melanoma Also, regarding G or WR… I definitely expect IOL to be addressed in the draft, but seems more like mid-round at the earliest. There’s nobody worth taking at 22.
As for WR, needs attention too, but there are A LOT of free agent WRs available (whereas TE and RB does not look so great), so I’d address WR through FA and hopefully add talent at RB an TE through the draft.
Herbert just needs weapons, period and TE and RB is weaker right now IMO.
@blue-beers I agree TE and RB are weaker. I just can’t see using 1.22 on a RB, not even Jeanty (sp?).
I’m not ruling out many positions….just my opinion….at 1.22 but RB, safety, and punter are definitely.
I think we’ll find a RB that will do nicely in the mid-rounds or free agency IF we get the IOL addressed properly. Not sure how center is gonna play out but that’s a key for the OL overall.
@buck-melanoma There aren’t really many starting caliber RBs available in FA. There are a handful that would be good in a committee (assuming they dump Gus Edwards, which is not a guarantee). Dowdle, Dobbins, maybe Chase Edmonds or AJ Dillon. I don’t want any part of Najee Harris or Javonte Williams. They’re just not good players despite where they were drafted.
Jeanty is a top 5 or top 10 player in this draft. I’m not sure he’ll even make it to 22 anyways. After him, there are a handful of good players, that will all likely be gone by the 3rd round. Positions I’d really like to see addressed in first three rounds are IOL, DT, TE, RB and maybe DE/Edge. Obviously without a trade down (which is pretty unlikely at #22), you’re only getting 3 of those.
Of course, they need WR help too, but I’m guessing they’ll go the FA route for that position because thats probably the most stacked position in FA this year.
As for center, if they could steal Drew Dalman from the Falcons, that would be ideal. Ryan Kelly has obviously been solid for a long time but he’s too old. Otherwise, probably need to look to the draft, but they’ll at least need to sign someone (like Bozeman) in case the draft doesn’t pan out. No one else available in FA is a material upgrade to Bozeman. The center cupboard is pretty bare.
@blue-beers youre right, the center cupboard is bare which only increases my angst about not addressing it last year. I’m really worried they’ll be running it back with Bozeman again. Maybe a stud RG to replace Pipkins could help some but Bozeman just isn’t the lynchpin the line needs.
@blue-beers The Center is class is bare this year from so many guys returning due to NIL that the Senior Bowl is pretty much inviting who they can to play Center during the week.
Jake Majors seems like the 1 player to draft that you could expect to start as a rookie since the team should probably spend that big FA $ on Trey Smith and maul on one side of the line.
@evolz3737 Hey Eric – I agree that there are needs on the defense. Re-signing Ford and Tart (both of whom were very good) would be a good place to start. I would love to see an Aaron Donald-type monster in the middle – I just don’t think the Chargers have the draft capitol to make that happen this year. The best they can hope to do in the draft is another developmental player like Eboibe (or maybe this is the year Okoye is ready for the NFL?).
Edge is definitely a need. It was a strange year for Bosa. Going into the season, the concern was health. Now, the concern is the loss of athleticism. Glad that Joey worked through the early season injuries and impressed that he played 456 snaps (42% of the defensive plays). Much better than the 320 in 2023 and 165 in 2022. I would love to see Mack back and I think there’s a chance Joey returns as well. I just don’t think they can pay either elite $ nor expect them to play more than 40% of the snaps. There needs to be top-tier additions to this group.
Clinksdale and Minter did an amazing job with all DBs not named Taylor. I am concerned a bit about Clinksdale getting a DC job – hope Harbaugh can keep the defensive staff together. Loved Hart’s play. Concerned about the concussions. Overall, this staff and FA have shown that they can field a competitive secondary with Derwin, young mid-round picks and cast-offs.
Replacing Perriman is a concern. They missed him against the Ravens and again in the 2nd half yesterday. They need a thumper. Good chance he’s back next year (but not sure they can depend on him to stay healthy, which again, means they need to address the position).
I still think Center is the most important need on the team.
@kevdiego Generally agree with all of this but also have to say that you should be sure that Davis is not a WR2. Come on, man. I liked what I saw, too. That is ideal in a WR5. WR2, no way, not even close.
@tau837 Agree with you about Davis (which is why WR2 is a priority). Everything else is wishing and hoping (and wishes and hopes are not plans).
Thanks for starting this topic Buck! I posted this in another thread but this seems the more logical place for it. Sorry for the double post everyone.
In addition to coaching changes, let’s look at our FAs. I note “In” for the ones I’d keep and, well “Out” is self explanatory:
Poona-In
Tart-In
Fox-Out
Dye-In
Mack-In (if team friendly deal)
Rumph-Out
Sarell-Out
Perryman-Out (always injured)
Fulton-Out
Apple-Out
Molden-In
Asante-Out
Maye-Out
Jefferson-Practice Squad
Niemann-In (special teams)
Chark-Out
Reagor-Out
Fehoko-Out
Palmer-Out
Dobbins-In
Edwards-Out
Hurst-Out
Smartt-In
Fisk-?????!
Bozeman-Out
Mustipher-Out
Jaimes-Out
Scott-In?
Stick-Out
Heineken-In
Though not FAs, cut Bosa and Pipkins. Can’t pay them what they’re scheduled to make, which is un guaranteed. What say you?
Random thought: I wonder how pissed Zeke is that he picked the Chargers?
Only disagreements from me would be Dye and Dobbins. With Perryman being gone most likely, they need another starting level LB. I could see Niemann coming back as the 5thLB/ST ace, but with the extra draft picks this year, maybe Dye is replaced with a cheaper rookie and they spend a little more on a FA to replace Perryman?
As far as Dobbins, I’m leaning toward out, we just got the healthiest season of his career, which could be the outlier when it’s all said and done, plus we really need a RB with more juice and better hands that can be a real threat in the passing game. If they dump Edwards, then maybe I could see him as RB2 behind a talented rookie, but I think the RB room really needs more talent if it is going to continue to be a focus of Harbaugh.
Scott- Who cares. I doubt anybody except a real punting nerd would be able to tell the difference between him and someone else kicking. It’s not like a FG kicker where the results are quantifiable. If he’s back great, if not, bring in the next guy.
I love Mack. I think he is a great leader and a quality person, but this could be the end of the line. His play dropped a bunch since last year and he won’t be cheap. I do think either him or Bosa come back as I don’t think they want to leave the cupboard bare with only Dupree and Tuli in the room. In order to maintain the level of defense we saw this year, we need elite pass rush on the edge. The draft class looks to have a pretty deep edge group so we could probably get a quality player in Rd1.
@evolz3737 Perryman/Dye ideally should be replaced by Colson. (I mean, I think they likely will re-sign Dye to retain him for special teams and depth… I’m talking about the LB2 role here.)
Agree on Dobbins and Scott.
I could see keeping Mack on a much more moderately priced contract. Not sure if that will be possible, since (a) he may retire, and (b) he may get more money elsewhere than I would hope they would pay him.
@tau837 Not sure Colson is the same profile of player as Perryman. I saw them both up close up in NE and Perryman is built more like a MLB, but Colson looks more like a big nickel or Dime LB. If they want this defense to continue to be able to play 2 high, it is imperative that they be able to run stop with the front 7. Especially with Colson fighting injury, another big run stopping LB is needed. I would expect rotational run stopping LB to be an easy cost effective find in FA.
@evolz3737 I just don’t see Perryman replacement as a high priority. All of this is more important, in no particular order: WR, TE, IOL, RB, IDL, Edge, CB, S. Basically every position except QB, OT, and special teams specialists.
So….pick 1.22….kinda no man’s land.
@buck-melanoma but could be the perfect spot for IOL or DL. Edge is pretty deep as well. I think we can kiss the top 2 TE goodbye though.
@evolz3737 see, that’s my feeling about the TE’s too. One, maybe both gone. So you could well be right that it’s trenches time again….and I’m OK with that. But somewhere weapons for Herbie also need to be acquired. Roman and Harbaugh need to understand, they need to run this offense through Herbert with a complementary run game.
@buck-melanoma Bingo. That is exactly what I have been preaching. Learn in the passing offense and have a complimentary run game. And if you have games where we are having success running it, then keep pounding it, but in todays NFL the rushing attack can’t be the focus of the offensive scheme IMO.
@buck-melanoma Nope. I think we are close on the defense, so hopefully the offense catches up this offseason, but their are a bunch of holes to plug just to keep the defense at the level it is now.
@evolz3737 this TE class is deep. If the top 2 are gone (I assume you mean Warren and Loveland?), I like Fannin (if he can put on weight like Bowers) or Taylor. Just not sure I’d go first round on them if there’s a BPA. This team has so many needs, it should be BPA with every pick.
@buck-melanoma With the conference realignment and the CFP I have watched more Texas football than I ever have. They are loaded on both sides. Their TE Helm is no slouch. If he was a 2nd rd target I would be very pleased.
@evolz3737 I’ll hafta look at him. Thx.
I really think Herbert with a Kelce (in his prime)…a Gronk….probably Bowers….would elevate this offense immensely. And Herbert would elevate them too.
IMO, that would be MORE valuable than a single RB.
Detroit’s two headed run game is awesome.
@buck-melanoma agreed that if I had to choose, I would prefer TE, but there is no doubt we need an upgrade at tailback. Edwards looked like he was running in mud and JK just didn’t seem to have that elite burst that other good RB have. Plus, I would like someone that is an actual threat as a receiver out of the backfield. Not sure if the lack of RB passes and screens was more a Roman deficiency or a personnel issue. I lean GR.
@evolz3737 I don’t disagree that the RB room needs upgrading. I’m just reluctant to spend but so much draft capital there.
@buck-melanoma The good news is we should have around 10 picks. We can definitely find a capable RB with that and RB looks to be one of the strongest positions in this class.
@evolz3737 10(ish) picks and a far far better cap situation. Yeah, I think we can improve that room significantly without overspending our draft capital.
I love the idea of BPA and @blue-beers made a statement that, with so many needs, we should go BPA every round. He may be right. I tend to think that it’s easier to go pure BPA when you have fewer needs. Maybe I should rethink that viewpoint. Realistically, I think that BPA is nearly always tempered with a not insignificant measure of need. I see this approach as likely this offseason.
@buck-melanoma It all depends on what we do in FA and resigning our own FA. The draft should not be necessarily for plugging holes entirely, but it should be a factor in selecting draft picks. Suppose a QB was the BPA on their board in Rd2, would you just blindly select the player because it’s BPA? Suppose it was an OT? I think you cannot REACH to fill a need, but if the players available at that spot are close in talent and one fits your need, you pull the trigger with need. if every team went BPA blindly, some teams would have 7 IDL and 2 OG. I view the first 2-3 rounds, with the talent pool being the deepest, as trying to isolate a handful of players with the highest grades at multiple positions and then selecting the best fit for your roster from those players. The mid rounds I would try to draft for value and the later rounds I would try to take flyers on guys with back of the roster potential at positions that are not totally filled. Just like Hortiz did with CB and WR last year. It has to be a blended approach. Drafting solely on need or BPA is a recipe for disaster.
@buck-melanoma Not sure if they prefer a bigger back, especially since Roman always seemed to prefer the smaller/ stocky types. I’m not sure how great his hands are and I don’t want a backfield, where one guy is the thumper and another guy comes into catch etc… I would really like a Breece Hall, Tony Pollard, Johnathan Taylor type that can be a three down back but has enough power to get the tough yards/goal line carries and is an asset in the passing game. However, I am not sure if the lack of Screen or RB passes was scheme or personnel?
@evolz3737 from what I’ve seen he’s good sized but has decent speed, very good agility, chips well, and can catch/run routes like a TE. He got a little dinged this year so wasn’t as productive as in ’23 but he looks good to me. I’m thinking the down year might make his price right.
@buck-melanoma I haven’t dove head first into the draft yet on all the prospects to get a true feel for their anticipated draft slots, but depending on FA, I would love to add a good RB in Rd 4/5.
@evolz3737 I would be disappointed if they don’t take a back before round 5. Its a huge need IMO and if they wait that long it will likely just result in another Spiller / Vidal type. They need some real talent at the position. Needs to be 4th round at the latest.
One scenario….
I can easily see Loveland here, especially given his relationship with Harbaugh.
Should we perhaps start a separate mock draft thread?
@buck-melanoma You know me. I’m down for anything draft related. I was hoping @kylededi would create a separate section for draft and FA content.
[/et_pb_row]
[/et_pb_section]
