Update: Corey Linsley has been released by the Chargers. His salary was reduced to the veteran minimum $1,210,000, meaning his cap savings from this move will be minimal after a replacement contract backfills his roster spot, but the team will save $14,600,000 in cap space next year after accounting for his $2,600,000 prorated signing bonus.
While everyone is fully expecting the move to happen, it’s not going to make it any easier when it’s officially announced. Corey Linsley has likely played his last snap in the NFL, solidifying another disappointing early-retirement for a Pro Bowl center in free agency by the Chargers.
Let’s be clear – no blame is placed a Linsley’s feet if he does end up retiring as expected. Corey has a wife and kids that need him healthy more than the Chargers do, and heart conditions aren’t a medical issue worth risking. If Corey somehow receives news that his condition has cleared and he can return to play with minimal risk, Chargers fans would be elated to see him back. However, it’ s an assumption at this point that Bradley Bozeman is the Chargers starting center in 2024.
The Chargers have been a bit snake bitten at center since Nick Hardwick retired in February 2015. Hardwick’s presence was everything a fan or teammate could ask for – he was a cerebral and charismatic leader of the offensive line for 11 years. He only made the Pro Bowl once, but before his career-ending neck injury that ended his 2014 season after one game, he missed a relatively low 25 games in ten seasons, including five full-slate seasons and six trips to the playoffs in that span. While he never returned to the Pro Bowl after his early admission to Hawaii in his third year, the Chargers benefitted from his consistency and reliability in the middle of the offensive line. He anchored the Bolts during one of their best eras of the team’s history, and deserves a lion’s share of credit for the success they had.
Embed from Getty ImagesThe Chargers went to the playoffs in 2013, his last 16 game season. They wouldn’t return to the playoffs until 2018, coincidentally the same season Mike Pouncey was signed in free agency after multiple Pro Bowl seasons with the Miami Dolphins. Pouncey played a full season slate that year, and the Bolts rode the offensive line stability right to a playoff appearance and Wild Card win before Bolt-killer Tom Brady bucked them from the tournament. The impact of having Pouncey on the line was felt both in his presence with the Chargers’ immediate success, and in his absence with their quick decline the following years.
Despite Pouncey signing while on the right side of 30, his second year with the Chargers ended early, and he didn’t make it through training camp in his third and final year. After season-ending hip surgery in 2020, Pouncey signed a one-day contract with the Dolphins and retired.
Embed from Getty ImagesOutside of the one-year blip of success with Pouncey, the Chargers shuffled through a carousel of starting centers, including Rich Ornberger, Trevor Robinson, Matt Slauson, Spencer Pulley, Scott Quessenberry, and Dan Feeney. Of this crop, only Scott Quessenberry would go to become a different team’s starting center. Quessenberry started for the Houston Texans in 2022, a 3-13-1 team that drafted not one, but two centers in the following off-season’s draft.
The only missing piece to a “perfect” inaugural off-season of Jim Harbaugh and Joe Hortiz is a plan for Justin Herbert’s center-of-the-future. Nick Hardwick and Philip Rivers were an enviable duo for the rest of the league, and it was hard to fully understand how good the Bolts had it until Rivers was wasting precious seconds of his pre-snap cadence to call the offensive line’s blocking adjustments in lieu of a competent center directing the unit. A band-aid has been slapped on the position with the signing of Bradley Bozeman, and while Bozeman has played his best football in Greg Roman’s scheme and deserves the vote of confidence the front office gave him in his signing, the apparent lack of a contingency plan is concerning.
Embed from Getty ImagesIs Jordan McFadden truly a viable developmental center as Jim Harbaugh suggested? Harbaugh gave high praise to McFadden in the offseason for his athleticism and intelligence, two traits a great center needs for a position that is as cerebral as it physically demanding. McFadden impressed last season as a utility piece for Kellen Moore’s offense, guest-appearing in the backfield as a blocking fullback in goal line sets. He’s explosive off the snap, and fits the mold of a highly-productive college tackle that just doesn’t have the length or size to bookend at the NFL level. McFadden developing into competent starting center could be one of the biggest boosts this team could receive from a depth piece currently on the roster.
There is always Connor Williams laying in wait as well, as covered previously at StormCloud.
However, for the time being, all eyes are on Corey Linsley as we wait for him to announce what feels like the inevitable.
What do you think, StormCloud? How confident are you in the Bolt’s in-house developmental options at center?
Adam Schefter reporting that Connor Williams is talking to several teams and will make his decision prior to the opening of training camps. His agent, Drew Rosenhaus, says that he has been taking his time rehabbing the injury. The expectation that he will be ready to start the season seems a little lofty. If he can get healthy and at age 27, he could be a long-term solution at center. We should know shortly where he signs. Fingers-crossed. I’ll take a Connor Williams and a Justin Simmons heading into training camp.
If we get Williams, I will lose my mother fhfkusdhfjkdbjSBNCSc mind
Can I just say that the quality of the discourse in this thread is why Stormcloud will be the premier blog for Chargers discussion quicker than you can say “Harbaugh and Herbert Win Third Super Bowl”.
They absolutely knew they would sign him at the time of the draft. This isn’t a big needle mover, but seems flat out wrong in your post IMO.
As for the rest, we’ll see. Actions speak louder than fan/media speculation.
Oh gosh. I love offensive line talk. I’ve done some research based on some of the discussions below
Kyle DeDiminicantanio I’d be interested to see what you think. I wanted to understand if the value of the C position is based on the supporting case around him, and more specifically why Hortiz and Harbaugh are happy with Bozeman in 2024.
Analysis of Centers’ Performance Across the LeagueI compared the PFF ratings of centers with the average ratings of the guards and tackles on their teams. This helps identify centers who excel despite having lower-rated surrounding linemen.
I compared the PFF ratings of centers with the average ratings of the guards and tackles on their teams. This helps identify centers who excel despite having lower-rated surrounding linemen. Bozeman is the 5th I looked at. (I find Humphrey’s relative rating interesting!)
Erik McCoy (New Orleans Saints):
Center Rating: 79.4Snap Counts: 1152Avg Guards Rating: 64.57Avg Tackles Rating: 67.05Relative Rating: +12.69Frank Ragnow (Detroit Lions):
Center Rating: 88.8Snap Counts: 1190Avg Guards Rating: 72.05Avg Tackles Rating: 69.10Relative Rating: +12.96Creed Humphrey (Kansas City Chiefs):
Center Rating: 81.4Snap Counts: 1351Avg Guards Rating: 66.83Avg Tackles Rating: 68.40Relative Rating: +3.42David Andrews (New England Patriots):
Center Rating: 71.2Snap Counts: 1050Avg Guards Rating: 50.56Avg Tackles Rating: 54.66Relative Rating: +8.39Bradley Bozeman (Carolina Panthers):
Center Rating: 62.2Snap Counts: 1148Avg Guards Rating: 45.91Avg Tackles Rating: 67.33Relative Rating: +5.58The relative rating is a metric that helps assess a center’s performance relative to the quality of the offensive linemen around them. Specifically, it compares the center’s individual performance (as measured by their PFF grade) to the average performance of the guards and tackles on the same team. This helps identify whether a center is performing better or worse than expected given the support they receive from their fellow linemen.
How It’s Calculated:Center Rating: The PFF grade of the center.Average Guards Rating: The average PFF grade of the guards on the same team.Average Tackles Rating: The average PFF grade of the tackles on the same team.The relative rating is calculated as:
Relative Rating=Center Rating− (Average Guards Rating + Average Tackles Rating)/2
Interpretation:Positive Relative Rating: Indicates that the center is performing better than the average of the surrounding guards and tackles. This suggests that the center is excelling even if the linemen around them are not performing as well.
Negative Relative Rating: Indicates that the center is performing worse than the average of the surrounding guards and tackles. This suggests that the center’s performance may be benefiting from the stronger performance of the guards and tackles.Bradley Bozeman’s performance with the Carolina Panthers in the most recent season shows his capability as a reliable center. Despite having a relatively low center rating, Bozeman managed a positive relative rating, indicating his ability to perform above expectations given the especially poorly graded and weaker guards, and tackles around him.
Center Rating (Overall Grade): 62.2Run Block Grade: 71.1Pass Block Grade: 73.8Snap Counts: 1,125 (All at Center)Pressures Allowed: 21 (5 Sacks, 9 Hits, 7 Hurries)Now let’s go back to some historical data. Bradley Bozeman had his best PFF grade in 2021 while playing for the Baltimore Ravens. His overall grade of 68.1, combined with a solid run block grade of 71.1 and a pass block grade of 73.8, indicates his capability as a reliable, but not amazing, center. He played all his snaps at the center position and the line was particularly stable. Let’s do some more comparisons.
Comparison with Other Ravens Linemen in 2021:Kevin Zeitler:Position: GOverall Grade: 75.1Run Block Grade: 68.7Pass Block Grade: 77.7Snap Counts: 1221Pressures Allowed: 4 Sacks, 10 Hits, 7 HurriesAlejandro Villanueva:Position: TOverall Grade: 65.4Run Block Grade: 65.9Pass Block Grade: 58.7Snap Counts: 1205Pressures Allowed: 9 Sacks, 9 Hits, 36 HurriesTyre Phillips:Position: TOverall Grade: 53.1Run Block Grade: 42.0Pass Block Grade: 53.1Snap Counts: 389Pressures Allowed: 3 Sacks, 13 Hits, 17 HurriesPatrick Mekari:Position: GOverall Grade: 66.1Run Block Grade: 65.0Pass Block Grade: 70.0Snap Counts: 754Pressures Allowed: 1 Sack, 1 Hit, 6 HurriesSo, let’s calculate the relative center rating for Bradley Bozeman based on his 2021 performance with the Ravens.
Bozeman’s 2021 Performance:
Center Rating (Overall Grade): 68.1Average Ratings of Surrounding Linemen:
Guards:Kevin Zeitler: 75.1Patrick Mekari: 66.1Average Guards Rating: (75.1 + 66.1) / 2 = 70.6Tackles:Alejandro Villanueva: 65.4Tyre Phillips: 53.1Average Tackles Rating: (65.4 + 53.1) / 2 = 59.25After calculations, Bozeman’s score:
Relative Rating=3.175
Weirdly enough by these metrics, 2024 Bozeman actually outperformed 2021 Bozeman even though his PFF grade was higher. He was bringing more value to the Panthers because of the poor talent around him. You could say that he was having to play at a higher level at Carolina given the shitshow he had around him.
What’s next? Well let’s make some predictions. Let’s analyze how Bradley Bozeman’s performance might look with the Los Angeles Chargers, assuming he maintains a +5 relative rating that he had in Carolina. We’ll project his performance and how it might influence or reflect the overall line performance.
Predicted Performance with the Chargers:Current PFF Ratings of Chargers Linemen:
Rashawn Slater (LT):Position: LTOffense: 88.1
Zion Johnson (LG):Position: LGOffense: 75.5
Trey Pipkins (RT):Position: RTOffense: 68.0
Joe Alt (RT, Rookie):Position: RT70.0 (Hypothetical)
I won’t put the calculations in here for the sake of boredom. But what I found was that if Bradley Bozeman maintains a +5 relative rating (so maintains his level of play relative to the players around him) his projected center rating with the Chargers would be, based on those numbers above:
Projected Center PFF Rating (Overall) Bradley Bozeman: 77.25
77.2 overall PFF grade puts him just outside the top 10 centers in the league between Ryan Kelly and Andre James, but knocking on the level of Jason Kelce and Tyler Linderbaum. (I am NOT saying Bozeman is Jason Kelce, this is based on prediction on my numbers, it is an thinking exercise, not fact).
So, if I am Harbaugh and Hortiz, and I MIGHT get top 10 Center play (per PFF) from a guy in Bozeman who costs $1,125,000, I can see why they did not hit Center in the draft.
To give that more credence, per overthecap.com, Bozeman is 48th on the overall salaries paid to C in the NFL. The 10th most expensive contract is Ethan Pocic who has a overall PFF grade of #16 (70.8). Ryan Kelly is 3rd on the list ($12,412,500 per year), and Andre James is 6th on the list ($8,000,000).
Is this blue sky thinking? Yes, of course. But running the numbers, it is just another move from Hortiz and Harbaugh that just leaves me in awe. If Bozeman produces the same way he did in Carolina, then we are in business. The Bolts offensive line is in far better shape than Carolina’s, and so is our coaching staff. Do I think Bozeman has it in him at 30? Maybe not. But even if he returns to something like +3 relative score, then replacing Linsley might not be as hard as we thought.
@wrefordreed89
Another good deep-dive, Jack!
I think the heart of it is this: “Does how a player performed in previous seasons relative to his peers, have any predictive value for how he will perform relative to his peers in Season 2024?”
As your investigation has shown, Bozeman was marginally better than his peers in Carolina (2024) and Baltimore (2021). But was that because Bozeman is a good player, or was the OL talent on those teams simply poor? Put differently, can we assume that just because Bozeman’s Relative Rating in those seasons was in the 3-5 range, that he can yield a score in the 3-5 range with first round talent around him (Slater, Alt, Zion). If he can, it would be the highest PFF grade of his career, and good news for the Chargers!
There are lots of other potential variables: a big one, for me, is QB play. But so is scheme. We saw for decades how Brady’s quick time to throw and ability to diagnose the open receiver, helped out his OL. PFF endeavours to isolate OL play by grading each snap they play, but invariably how the QB performs and the way the scheme protects linemen, is going to bear on their grade.
Maybe it’s for all of these reasons – Bozeman’s historical Relative Value, the plan for this scheme to protect Bozeman’s pass pro weaknesses by running the ball and utilising play action, and Herbert’s prowess at QB – that Hortiz & Harbaugh are happy with Bozeman (at cheap cost) at least for 2024.
I mean, sure, but Rivers and Herbert were different levels of athletes… Herbert can actually scramble productively. 😊
I was convinced at that time that it was the primary cause for Rivers to cook the play clock all the way to “zero” as often as he did… making the snap a bit predictable.
It just seems like most franchise QB’s with long, sustained success had a center that was a lynchpin for the line. Big Ben had Pouncey, Peyton Manning had Saturday, Brady had Andrews. Brees is the anomaly of the bunch, he rotated through quite a few centers, but in his 15 years with the team, only 5 seasons were spent with a Center that didn’t have at least one Pro Bowl season with the team. Same could be said of Aaron Rodgers, he started with multiple years of Scott Wells, got late-career Jeff Saturday who still Pro Bowled with the team, had one year of a journeyman center in Evan Dietrick-Smith, and then went right into 7 years of Linsley. That’s 13 years at the beginning of his career where only one season was spent with a center that didn’t eventually get a Pro Bowl to their name.
It just seems like a position where continuity on competency breeds success, whereas other positions are easier to swap in and out.
I want Herbert to have that kind of relationship with a center like nothing else (OK, maybe a similar relationship with a TE1). Getting a franchise TE and C for Herbert would mean everything to me.
But I find this combination of facts to be rather telling:
Hortiz and Harbaugh talked about strengthening the OL and having strong focus on that position group, then drafted Alt at 5 rather than trading down or drafting more of a consensus pick like Nabers. They basically did what they said they were going to do.
They could have drafted the best center in the draft in the 2nd but drafted WR.
They could have drafted a center at any position in the remainder of the draft — 7 more picks — but didn’t. Instead, they drafted LB, IDL, CB x2, RB, WR x2. They had a lot of needs to be sure, but seemingly did not prioritize center.
They could have signed a better free agent starting center than Bozeman and/or a better backup center than Jaimes, but didn’t.
It seems obvious that they feel they solved their center problem for 2024 by signing Bozeman, basically a journeyman free agent, for less than $2M.
That seems to indicate that Hortiz and Harbaugh don’t place a high premium on the center position. I don’t see any reason to interpret this differently.
@tau837
1) Alt was as much of a consensus pick as Nabers – and enough scouts I trust (Ryan included!) gave pause with Nabers at #5 , and suggested pushing Nabers further down the draft board. I was convinced before the draft that Odunze was a better pick than Nabers, but there was never a better Tackle prospect than Alt (although you can argue better RT prospects were avaliable if you don’t think Alt can make the switch, or better value picks by sliding back).
2) As I said previously, they already have (in their minds) a starting center. They have 3 starting WR spots to fill, and the current roster was severely lacking (there was no Chark, Rice, Johnson, even Ladd until they picked him). Ladd could realistically jump them all. This also could be what a GM or Coach that actually picks BPA simply looks like.
3+4) It’s a little redundant, because you’re argument as I’m perceiving it is that Jim/Joe/Roman don’t perceived the center position as important as I do, because they didn’t address it in the draft.
At the end of the day, the NFL – like most businesses – is a “who you know” business. Roman (and by extension, Harbaugh/Hortiz) know Bozeman better than you or I. They were tasked with a full rebuild/reload this offseason, and they’ve trusted him to hold the fort -for the time being.
Personally, I want further investment in the position. But I’m also going to trust these guys to get it right, one way or another – because this is the most competent coaching staff were had in who knows how long.
But I don’t think their trust in Bozeman is an indication of how they feel about the important of a strong center anchoring the line.
I’m not sure that I’d draw the conclusion that they have made it clear that they don’t value centers. They missed out on the highest ranked free agents (Cushenberry and Biadasz) who signed early and for decent size contracts. The Chargers had very little to spend early and were working the system for compensatory picks.
The next tier of free agents were Mitch Morse, Coleman Shelton, and Bozeman.
I agree they could have gone center in the second round, but as mentioned above they had holes all over the roster. I believe that the Keenan Allen trade was not part of their plan and a player like McConkey was essential.
The rest of the draft had several developmental centers and I doubt any would start over Bozeman. I’m guessing he is a stopgap. No different than Kristian Fulton. They will continue to rebuild in the 2025 draft, 2025 free agency, and 2024 in-season trades. Who knows, they may sign Connor Williams.
Connor Williams – discussed plenty in this forum
Mason Cole – didn’t play well in 2023 but did play well in 2022; played for Harbaugh at Michigan
Connor McGovern – bad season last year but played well in more than 1000 snaps per year at center in 2018-2022
Nick Gates – played reasonably well in limited playing time in his 5 year career; good run blocker
I don’t know enough to know which of these players would be a fit for Roman’s offensive scheme. Some of them will likely be better than Bozeman, and certainly could offer better depth than Jaimes.
Agree to disagree on this.
None of us know what we have in Jaimes. I think everyone on the site has expressed we’d all like to see more improvement at center depth, but we’re trying to make the point that their faith in Bozeman could be because he played well under Roman in the past.
You argued that there are better rated starters than Bozeman available, but that’s simply not true, as SMG pointed out.
Williams isn’t healthy – it would make no sense to expect him to be our starting center when his agent has expressed he won’t sign until August, when they expect him to be healthy.
McGovern lost his starting job in 2023 and then played worse in spot work, and Jets fans tore him to pieces. The write ups of his on Gang Green’s site are brutal.
Mason Cole wasn’t rated better than Bozeman last year, and didn’t post as high of a peak number in his career either.
Gates is probably the best option of those you listed, but he still never had a starting season that rated as high as Bozeman under Roman.
The “under Roman” part is extremely relevant, as it’s the basis of the entire argument- they feel like they have a great shot at “buying low” on a guy that had success in their system, and failed elsewhere.
It’s exactly what we did with Moragn Fox, and ironically, he floundered on the same team.
It can be argued, and I think very rationally, that there wasn’t a better fit at center available for everything we need right now. He knows the system, played his best within it, and can get our backup C and G’s up to speed better than if we had grabbed Cushenberry or a rookie. It’s not hard to see the vision here, and why in a transition year it might have been the best solution AND the best value.
It seems that you are agreeing with me, not disagreeing with me on that point.
Where we appear to possibly disagree is how important the center position is to Hortiz/Harbaugh/Roman. I’m sure they would tell you it is important, and I’m sure they believe that… but their actions certainly haven’t proven that. At best, the jury is out on how important they feel it is.
I think it would make great sense for them to use some of their available cap space to sign Williams now, at a presumed discount, with the understanding that Bozeman enters the season as the starter, but Williams is the possible center of the future.
Spotrac puts his market value at $8.3M/year. If the Chargers were to sign him to a 3 year deal, they would be able to start with a fairly low cap number in 2024 and gradually increase it in years 2 and 3, when the cap will be higher.
Alister pointed out in the Alt thread that Williams was better at zone blocking than gap blocking, but consider where his PFF gap blocking grade ranked among all centers with at least 100 run blocking snaps:
2023 – 63.9, #21 (of 38)
As a point of comparison, Clapp’s grade was 59.2, #28
Under the cutoff at 86 run blocking snaps, Jaimes’ grade was 47.7
Under the cutoff at 70 run blocking snaps, Linsley’s grade was 59.9
2022 – 65.9, #9 (of 41)
As a point of comparison, Linsley was 56.3, #18
Under the cutoff at 81 run blocking snaps, Clapp’s grade was 57.0
Being better than Clapp and Jaimes is perhaps a low bar, but being better than Linsley in both of Williams’ years at center is interesting.
Williams just turned 27 in May. He didn’t play center at Dallas, so it seems reasonable to believe he still has room to improve as a center, with just 2 years at the position. With the OL as a serious organizational focus for the Chargers now, he would get good coaching and play with high quality OL teammates, and I expect he would be a top 10 caliber center once healthy.
Plus, this would presumably push the expected 9th OL off the roster for 2024, which seems to be one of Sarell, Leatherwood, UDFA Barnhart, or UDFA Patrick. Or maybe Jaimes once Williams is healthy enough. No issue there.
Combine all of this, and to me it would make sense to sign him. But I am definitely not qualified to assess if he is a good fit for Roman’s scheme, and maybe that is an issue.
I will bow out of further discussion on this topic.
The Bolts moving up to draft Ladd doesn’t suggest to me that they believe WR is a more important position than center. I think it just highlights how Roman and Hortiz, and Harbaugh by extension, likely feel about Bozeman, someone they have a ton of familiarity with. Not only that, but you’re essentially tasking with finding at least three starting-caliber wide receivers in the draft, and so the positional upgrade over QJ or Davis (and potentially even Palmer) was likely seen as much higher than Barton/JPJ (or they just had reg flags with JPJ, something that apparently multiple teams had).
I definitely agree that there is no metric at our fingertips to come to a resolute conclusion on this. I just began feeling this way when watch Philip play, and seeing how even when we had solid Tackle play, it wouldn’t matter if we had shotty center/IOL play. He was a different QB when he had a pocket to step into, rather than being forced to roll out due to interior pressure.
I’m not necessarily saying it’s easier to find quality center play, but there are many more players that athletically fit the mold of a center, creating a plethora of “replacement” options in the NFL economy. Pair that with the fact that it’s really hard to quantify dominant center play in the NFL, and you have a sluggish market that trails other positions. It also hurts that teams only needing to start one center instead of two tackles/guards, creating less demand for the position. Thus, when you do finally have a stud center negotiating a contract, it doesn’t take much to reset the center market, as Linlsey and Kelce did while still having very reasonable salary.
The same concept works against tight ends. Their actual value to a team is immense as they contribute both in the trenches and against the pass, and there are probably very few positional players that are more important to their team’s success that Travis Kelce. However, is APY is almost half that of AJ Browns. I believe the suppressed TE market has way more to do with these factors, and a reliance on counting stats to drive market value for positional players, than I do the actual contributions a TE makes towards a teams success. It’s the teams that recognize these things and allocate their resources properly to take advantage of market inefficacies that can create winning “edges,” like the Chiefs did when they traded Tyreek Hill in his prime to the Dolphins and kept Kelce as the offensive cornerstone of the team.
That’s not exactly what I said. I didn’t say “leading indicator” anywhere. I said I believe market spending approximates positional value. I also pointed out that not every situation and offense is the same, and center may, in fact, be more important than WR in the Harbaugh/Roman offense… though that certainly does not seem to be true based on their actions this offseason:
They could have drafted any center in the draft other than Barton (if they viewed him as a center) in the 2nd round. Instead, they traded up to draft a WR. The exact two positions being discussed here.
They could have drafted center at other points in the draft. They could have recognized that, given their presumably known intent to sign Chark, they already had a full WR room after drafting Rice, and they could have drafted Michigan’s center… or any other center who wasn’t drafted. Instead, they drafted a 3rd rookie WR.
They signed Bozeman to start at center and paid less for him than they paid for Chark. They could have invested more in the position, by upgrading on Bozeman and/or on Jaimes but did neither… despite currently sitting on $9M to $10M in usable cap space.
It would be outstanding if there were some metrics that enabled us to fairly compare the contributions of players at different positions. Approximate Value is flawed, so I don’t think that does it. PFF grade doesn’t really measure contribution but rather quality of play, not the same thing given varying playing time and positional differences.
You appear to be saying it is easier to find quality center play than quality play at other positions, like tackle. If true, this would seem to reduce the positional value of the center position.
This suffers from being a small sample size. The Chargers have played 9 seasons since Hardwick retired. They have had winning records 4 times. Once was 2017, with Spencer Pulley at center… no one’s idea of a Pro Bowl caliber center. So, even though the other 3 times were with Linsley and Pouncey… that’s still only 3 times.
I assume without researching it that there are many more examples of teams having great success without a Pro Bowl center, since, by definition, more teams have success every season than there are Pro Bowl centers.
The NFL market doesn’t agree with you. The highest AAV for a center right now is $13.5M (Ragnow). Here are how many players at the other offensive positions make more than that:
WR – 26
QB – 17 (with several other starters still on rookie contracts)
LT – 12
RT – 12
TE – 8
LG – 6
RG – 5
RB – 3
FB – 0
I’m sure this would hold if you looked at it various different ways (top 10, average across league, etc.).
If center is truly the second most important position behind QB, it would seem that teams would be spending more to make sure they have a good one.
This makes the neglect of the center position even more frustrating. The Telesco-led Charger team definitely paid the WR group, you could argue to a fault. All things considered, I much prefer the 2024 approach to the WR room.
Centers not getting paid does not mean having quality Center play (where play = both the players ability to call protections effectively as well as play the position) is not critical to an offense. Who do you think the Chargers offense missed most in 2023: Mike Williams or Cory Linsley? I think it’s Cory (and it’s not even close).
Generally speaking, it seems to me that the NFL positional spending markets reasonably approximate positional value.
For example, scarcity is a major driver of market value. A big reason T’s get paid more than G’s or C’s isn’t because they necessarily they are more important than the other positions, but because it’s much harder to find a player with the size, length, and athleticism to play tackle, leading to them to be drafted earlier when someone with the physical and production comes along. Many college tackles have to convert to guard because of physical limitations lowering the scarcity of guards. In some instances, they convert to center. But we almost never see college centers or guards convert to tackle.
I’m definitely with Kevin here, I think it needs to be a far more nuanced topic to research than pointing to league spending. We’ve seen far too many examples of GMs regularly insisting to ignore value-based metrics and instead lean into tradition, as we’ve seen with the Jimmy Johnson Chart, which we’ve studied and shown to still align with draft-day trade values despite being the least effective indicator of future performance for the values assigned to the picks as the many other modern draft charts available.
Strictly anecdotally, we serve as an excellent example. We have been heavy spenders at some of the most important, highest-earning positions over the last 15 years (WR, T, DE), but our team success had been directly linked to whether or not we’ve had a Pro Bowl center that managed to play the majority of the games in a given season, at least since Hardwick played his last full season.
They could still sign Connor Williams and start the season with him on the PUP list. He is only 27. In 2025 they can use the picks elsewhere.
Great reporting Kyle. We really gonna miss Corey Linsley. That Center position is extremely important to having a cohesive offensive line. Wishing Corey the best of health moving forward. I expect Bradley Bozeman to be the starter this year as he’s the most experienced center we have on the roster at this time. I don’t know if Brenden Jaimes has developed to the point where he’s ready to take on that position now and I also hear they’ve tried out Jordan McFadden at the position as well. Not sure what to make of that because I haven’t seen him on film playing the position yet. If I had to take a educated guess, off of reports I’ve read about at this time, I believe the best option is to get through this year and look to draft a center for the future next year. You know Harbaugh won’t hesitate if there’s a lineman worthy to be taken in the first round. I think Bradley Bozeman is good enough and experienced enough to hold it down for this season.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40284957/chargers-release-corey-linsley-retiring-nfl
All over but the official retirement.
Thanks for your time as a Charger, Corey. Good luck & good health. 👍🏼
I hope to see a real battle for the starting center spot this season, with as low as a cap hit Bozeman has I’m thinking/hoping he’s not just a penciled in starter, which was TT’s MO.
@kylededi
Glad to be here Kyle, thanks for setting this up and creating a new and improved community for us Bolt fans.
Was the Cory Linsley signing a success? There’s no question that Cory is (was?) a great player when on the field. What did the Chargers get for giving Cory a 5 year, $62M contract?
One mostly healthy season (2021)
One partially healthy season (2022)
One mostly un-available season (2023)
Early retirement – with some salary relief
Love Cory the player; he seems like a good dude. However, his signing highlights the flaws in taking a Madden-style approach to roster building. By spending big-bucks on 30+ year old players, rewarding them for past production (rather than forecasting the value they can deliver during the duration of the contract), you end up over-paying, and worse, depending on an older player playing at a high-level as their bodies age.
My view is that Telesco was forced to make a move and over-pay for interior OL due to his inability to draft and the Chargers staff’s inability to develop offensive linemen. Signing an older player and expecting him to play 17 games at a high level, especially over a 5 year contract, is not good roster management. Given the Chargers situation in 2021, I understand the team signing Cory. However, I think this was a desperate move forced by poor drafting. Not the worst move made during the Telesco era, but definitely not the best. Possibly the worst thing about this move is that the Chargers viewed the center position as solved and neglected to add/develop any players with the ability to ascend into the position. The lack of a quality center was a major contributor to the Chargers challenges in 2023, and very likely led to the recent Herbert injuries.
The signing was not good for the Chargers. The overall approach to building depth and succession planning for the position was a cluster that was a significant contributor to the 2023 shit-show season.
This is an interesting thought exercise. In a vacuum, I think Linsley was one of Telesco’s best signings. Since that doesn’t say much, I’d even go so far as to say it was a great signing, met with an unfortunate ending. By “in a vacuum” I mean without some of the context you added that is super relevant to the overall roster construction. Telesco failed to draft a capable center in an 11 year tenure as the Chargers GM! Even if Tom had drafted a young buck to develop under Linsley (and there are plenty of names available late that many here have thrown out. Jarrett Patterson was one I was personally interested in last year), we would have been in a far better situation. That said – I don’t think the Chargers have two winning seasons in 2021 and 2022 without Corey. As
Spanos Must Go mentioned, the team was completely different when Corey was off the field. For how big of an impact he provided, his contract didn’t (or, shouldn’t have) restricted Tom from making moves or bringing in a reasonably priced backup. His cap hits in the years he played were only $6.6M, $11.6M, and $13.1M. Add in $2.6M in dead cap for the next two seasons, and I still think he was a great value for what he provided. It’s just a shame that Telesco couldn’t bring in a mentee for him to teach, especially given the care he showed for everyone’s development last year when he couldn’t play. It’s borderline GM malpractice.
This highlights one of Telesco’s major flaws. “We’re fucked at Center? Fuck it, sign the best FA out there for big bucks. Problem solved. Let’s move on to the next problem.”
The inability to build a 90+ player deep roster full of quality athletes that can contribute + having zero plan for adversity created a very fragile roster that could win when it stayed healthy, but crumbled like a cheap suit when a key player got injured.
Very happy the Telesco is now the Raiders problem.
The second and third tiers of FA’s don’t seem like risky propositions, especially guys that you’re buying on the low, but chasing top-dollar FA’s just seems to burn teams WAY more than it helps them.
I think if I had the ability to ask Joe Hortiz any question, it would be how the signing of Earl Thomas affected his perception of roster building. Thomas’ signing cancelled out the third round comp pick the Ravens would have recieved for ZaDarius Smith’s departure. It was one of the rare high-price FA signings they’ve had, and it was a colossal failure on all accounts.
Contrast that with how they acquired Roquan Smith in-season on an expiring deal for a 2nd and a fourth, and after seeing him gel with the team and excel, made him the highest paid off-ball linebacker and felt comfortable letting Queen go and getting a 4th round comp pick in return.
I think we may see more of a Smith-approach, grabbing players on expiring deals to get a preview of them on the team before committing the big money to them.
@kevdiego
These are words of wisdom that anyone knowledgeable about building a roster would say. I can’t count the number of times I’ve spoken to different individuals who state the same thing you just wrote, it’s roster building 101 essentially. So many of TT’s Free Agency moves are prime examples of desperation moves. Mediocrity and desperation are the two words I like to best associate Tom Telesco with.
I reckon that signing Corey was a major boon. At the very least it showed us what a great center can do for his team. We sure missed the hell out of him when he was not in the lineup.
So yeah, the signing, not the player, is in question here. Even with Telesco’s backass-ward approach of doing things, I’m glad that Corey was here.
The argument for the signing is how much better the Chargers played when Linsley was on the field. There is no question that Cory’s elite play and ability to set protections made the Chargers much better.
The argument against the signing is Cory’s availability. He played ~50% of the snaps over the first 3 years of a 5 year contract. He’s now going to retire, leaving the Chargers with $5.2M in dead cap. Worse, Telesco depended on Linsley to man center and completely neglected the position. The Chargers essentially went into each of Cory’s seasons with a converted tackle project (Jaimes) and a very mediocre journeyman (Clapp) as competition. The failure to bring in additional center talent likely led to the injuries Herbert suffered over the last two years. It also led to the 2023 dumpster fire.
Love Linsley the player. It would be awesome if he could rebound and play in 2024. I just don’t think that signing a player that played 50% of the possible snaps and only made it through 3 years of a 5 year contract = good signing.
The lack of a sufficient back-up is a separate issue and is truly on Telesco and the coaching staff. They should have had a better plan than Clapp and should have drafted a young center of the future instead of making crap picks like JT Woods.
I still like the “signing” as Linsley lived up to everything that was expected in 2021 & 2022. At the end of the day the health issue prematurely ended his highly productive career. The sum of it all is that the health issue skews his numbers and allows the statement of “he will end up playing less than 50% of the snaps”. I think that statement serves the narrative and skews the fact that it was a good signing.
The outcome is where I’m torn. Love the guy when he played. I just don’t think he played enough to justify the contract. This is yet another example of why you don’t throw huge contracts at players on the wrong side of 30.
@kevdiego
Hmm…I don’t think this is a great example of that, since this type of heart issue wasn’t age-related and could equally have happened to a 21yo.
And I’ll just add that OL, in particular, has become one of the positions where players play well deeper into their 30s, since athleticism is less critical to success. Jason Kelce, Trent Williams, Lane Johnson, Andrew Whitworth, etc.
I’m all for not throwing the bag at 30+ skill position players (eg, Keenan), but not sure it applies in the same way to a player like Corey. Just my two cents!
While I was OK with the decision to sign Corey, I think a much better decision would have been to draft Drew Dalman rather than Trey McKitty. There were so many quality players available at that pick; how much better would the Chargers OL be with Dalman at C or Quinn Meinerz at RG?
Ahhh – OK – then, in my book, that was definitely a top-5 era.
I think two fun questions to ask could be-
1) Could the Chargers have entered another “dominant” era if Linsley had stayed relatively healthy during his five-year contract?
2) How many teams have accomplished sustained success without consistency at center?
It’s interesting to see teams throw crazy money at WRs and Tackles. I like the direction the Chargers are headed at the skill positions: Athletic, low cost, lots of competition, spending capitol on the OL. Not sure I’m sold on Bozeman as being an average+ center, so I would like to see the Chargers plan here.
Additional point: I’ve heard some positive reports on Jaimes from camp; getting time with the 1st string, etc. We had sideline seats for the 2022 Charger/Falcon game (our seats were right behind the Chargers bench – we were literally 25 feet behind the players). When the offense came off the field, the starting OL huddled with the coaches to look at film. Jaimes was the only backup in that group. The other backup linemen were scattered about, watching the game or chatting. Jaimes had his head in the game and was very obviously trying to help his teammates. When he played last year, I thought his actual play was up/down and probably consistent with Clapp’s play. However, I think Jaimes was much better at getting the protections set and making everyone around him better. This may be a minority opinion, but if this coaching staff can add strength to his body, then I would have no issues with him being the backup at Center. To steal from Buck, I think Jaimes is a lunch pail player who’s been working his ass off trying to contribute in any way possible while improving his game. Would love to see the dude succeed.
I remember you bringing that up about Jaimes! Honestly, if that happens, I’d be thrilled! I’d be interested to hear if McFadden became another one of those players eager to improve last year, as there’s been plenty of positive chatter about him as well.
Between those two players, if one develops into a quality starter and the other into a quality depth piece, this offense takes on a whole new look. I’d be thrilled.
Bozeman does seem like a lunch pail guy too, and I read that he’s really hoping to latch on here and be our center of the future. I thought that was interesting… he seemed less concerned about re-establishing his market than he was earning a place on this team. I wonder if that’s a common feeling for some vets like him, who have had success with one coach, and then went to a toxic environment like the Panthers. If he establishes himself as an average IOL, I’d love to see the Chargers keep him at a team-friendly number. Having that positional flexibility would be stellar, and as we discussed about Linsley, it shouldn’t prevent Hortiz from looking for a stud center… it just gives him a mentor for whichever prospect he drafts down the line.
There could be worse situations than going into the season with Bozeman/Jaimes as the two centers on the roster.
I think both Bozeman and Jaimes are similar in their approach to the game. Where they differ is in their athletic ability. Jaimes is a tackle. He moves better, but lacks the strength to anchor in the interior. Bozeman is stronger, but lacks agility. I just looked up both’s RAS – a bit shocking:
Bozeman: 1.19
Jaimes: 8.54
If Ben Herbert can add strength to an athlete with elite agility and explosion, the Chargers may have something.
Kyle – great content. I do have a question regarding this statement:
What? The Chargers made 1 playoff appearance in Cory’s time with the Chargers (the loss to the Jags). The best eras in Charger history:
I don’t know where the Staley era lands in team history. Probably above Mike Riley, but below Anthony Lynn. I do know that it was not “one of the best eras of the team history.”
Hey Kev! That statement was regarding Nick Hardwick, and the Marty/Norv era, not Linsley. 🙂
I keep wanting to hold out hope that Corey’ medicals actually came back great, and he’s going to step in at center and push Bozeman to RG… after getting his salary back 🤣
I’d absolutely lose my mind
I still have the feeling that this could be one of those positions that gets filled either during camp or right after final cuts with a camp casualty from another team. Bozeman might have familiarity with the system, but he hasn’t played well the last few seasons, so table that with your expectations there. Jaimes has never showed much when given the opportunity, and I would not be comfortable with him being anything more than a one or two game replacement at best. I know they mentioned McFadden as a possibility to take reps there, but I find it difficult to think that a new staff that didn’t draft him or watch him play can come in and immediately suggest that he has some flexibility to play there. Seems like they were wishing that into existence, IMO to quell any worry in case we were in this exact situation post draft where it hasn’t yet worked out to add either a drafted rookie or notable vet to add to the room. I know not every position can be filled with elite talent, but IMO, any injury to Bozeman will create a serious hole in the middle of the OL.
Center is my biggest concern on the team and the one “ding” I’d place on the draft. Hopefully Bozeman pans out. We all know what interior pressure can do to a QB’s game and we all saw the decline in OL play when Linsley left the game.
Nuf said.
Completely different offense when Linsley stepped off the field. Literally night and day. I appreciate how good he was even if just for a short while. I hope he returns to full health and lives a good/healthy life off of the field.
Yes please on Connor Williams. Yes please on Justin Simmons.
I have some hope for McFadden and Jaimes might also develop further. Yes, it was nice when we had Nick Hardwick and I am happy he is on the coaching staff. Our O-Line looks to be a strength. We certainly have better depth this year than in recent go-rounds.
I’m sharing that hope!