MIAMI GARDENS, FL – DECEMBER 31: Michigan Wolverines running back Hassan Haskins (25) runs with the ball during the Capital One Orange Bowl game between the Georgia Bulldogs and the Michigan Wolverines on December 31, 2021 at Hard Rock Stadium in Miami Gardens, Fl. (Photo by David Rosenblum/Icon Sportswire)

Happy Wednesday, Chargers fans!

Here’s an open thread for StormCloud members to post any and all updates they see throughout the post-cuts day. Here is the 53-man roster as it currently stands today:

The roster is far from solidified. Every season, the 53-man roster goes through three main phases of evolution before somewhat stabilizing:

Initial Cut Day: From 90 to 53

Tuesday was the NFL’s initial cut day, cutting rosters almost in half from 90 to 53.

Some players will remain on the 53 man roster with little to no intention by their General Manager to actually keep them rostered through Week 1 of the season. Players who haven’t reached “vested veteran” status (4+ seasons of accrued service time) can immediately sign to a team’s active or practice squad roster, but all other players must pass through waivers first. Teams making waiver claims must stash the claimed player on their active roster. Only players that safely pass through waivers can be signed to a practice squad.

If a GM has a player that may fill an active-roster need on another team, but he hopes to slide that player through to his practice squad, he may retain said player for a couple extra days while waiting for that opposing team to address their need elsewhere. Or, such as with the Browns and their current four-QB roster, a GM may retain players he believes have some trade value and attempt to leverage a deal in the days following the initial cuts.

Players may be on our 53-man roster now, but may be waived and re-signed to the practice squad prior to the Week One Raiders game, may include Stone Smartt, Jaret Patterson, Simi Fehoko, Brenden Rice, or Deane Leonard. JT Woods may even be on this list as well. All these players won’t be waived, but it’s a list to keep and eye on, as their roster spots are no where near safe at this point.

Embed from Getty Images

Waiver Claim Day: What Fruit Shakes Lose?

Some riches typically fall from the branches when the rosters get trimmed down to 53 and teams have to make difficult cuts.

Chargers Fans are expecting Easton Stick to be replaced in the coming days, whether it be by waiver claim or by trade. At the time of this writing however, news dropped that the waiver claim would in fact be for a running back, Jim Harbaugh’s own Hassan Haskins.

As speculated above, this could signal Patterson being waived, and hopefully landing on the practice squad tomorrow.

Vested Veteran Shake-Up… Pre-and Post Week 1 Rosters

The third phase of the roster cuts boils down to terms negotiated in the CBA aimed at benefitting veterans, but often just burns the fringe-players. If a vested veteran is on a 53-man roster through Week 1, their base salary becomes fully guaranteed. If a team signs a vested veteran to their active roster after Week 1, these guarantees don’t come into play.

Breiden Fehoko broke 2022’s camp on the active roster, after Christian Covington was released on cut day. Covington was signed to the practice squad, and Fehoko believed he had finally “made the team” after being a practice squad call-up in his previous seasons. After Week 1, Fehoko was waived and landed back on the practice squad, and Covington was brought back on the active roster. Covington missed out on the fully guaranteed year, and Fehoko went through a media circus around his “making the team” only to be cut a week later. It was an incredibly awkward and rare miscue from the Chargers social media team.

Donald Parham may have fallen victim to this same concept. Stone Smartt will receive no additional guarantees if he is on the active roster in Week 1. If Parham was rostered in Week 1, his base salary would be fully guaranteed, but if he’s signed after Week 1, those guarantees are no longer an issue. It wouldn’t be a shock to see Parham brought back to the practice squad, and back on the active roster by Week 2.

Tony Jefferson is another name to look out for. He may have been seen as a player that played too well in his final preseason game to cast off to the initial waiver/cuts vultures – but he is also a player they might not want on a fully guaranteed contract. Should the Chargers find positional upgrades elsewhere, Jefferson might be a late cut-and-stash, before signing him back to the active roster in Week 2.

What do you think, StormCloud? How else might this roster shake up in the coming days?

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Tau837
Tau837(@tau837)
1 year ago

Last season, 72 players played at least one snap for the Chargers on offense, defense, and/or special teams. As of right now, the Chargers have:

30 players on their 53 man roster from that group (and I don’t expect backup QB Stick to last)
2 of 5 players on IR from that group
2 of 17 players on the practice squad from that group and 2 others who were on the practice squad last year

That is just 36 of 75 current Chargers players who are holdovers from Telesco’s final season with the Chargers. New regime normally leads to change, but that seems like more than normal. I’m interpreting that as confirmation of what Chargers fans have long thought about the poor depth in Telesco’s rosters.But it was always hard to know how to separate responsibility between Telesco and President of Football Operations John Spanos, the owner’s son. If Telesco does a better job with the Raiders, that could imply Spanos had a big hand in those decisions. At least nowadays, it seems like Spanos is completely hands off and GM Hortiz is running the show.Consider Telesco’s last 5 drafts:

2019

Only 2 of 7 picks remain: Pipkins (3rd) and Stick (5th)
5 of 7 picks are gone: Tillery (1st), Adderley (2nd), Tranquill (4th), Egbule (6th), Broughton (7th)

2020

Only 2 of 6 picks remain: Herbert (1st) and Gilman (6th)
4 of 6 picks (really 6 of 8) are gone: Murray (1st, 2nd, 3rd), Kelley (4th), Reed (5th), Hill (7th)

2021

5 of 9 picks remain: Slater (1st), Samuel (2nd), Palmer (3rd), Jaimes (5th), Niemann (6th, counting him since he is designated to return from IR)
4 of 9 picks are gone: McKitty (3rd), Rumph (4th, IR not designated to return), Rountree (6th), and Webb (7th)

2022

5 of 8 picks remain: Zion (1st), Ogbonnia (5th), Salyer (6th), Taylor (6th), Leonard (7th)
3 of 8 picks are gone: Woods (3rd), Spiller (4th), Horvath (7th)

2023

6 of 7 picks remain: Johnston (1st), Tuli (2nd), Henley (3rd), Davis (4th), McFadden (5th), Matlock (6th)
1 of 7 picks is gone: Duggan (7th)

Total

20 of 37 picks remain (really 20 of 39 due to the 3 picks used on Murray)
These picks included just 7 clear full-time 2024 starters on offense/defense: QB Herbert, LT Slater, LG Zion, RG Pipkins, WR Palmer, CB Samuel, S Gilman

Not counting Henley, since I am expecting Colson to overtake him at some point; I might be shortchanging him, so it could be 8 clear full-time 2024 starters
It is possible that none of Pipkins, Palmer, and/or Samuel will make the 2025 roster, which could further reduce this to as few as 4 starters… though it is also possible Tuli starts in 2025

To me, that does not look like a good track record. I’m really happy with Hortiz so far.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
Reply to  Tau837
1 year ago

 Tau837 thanks for this breakdown. Just not a good GM. We will never really know how much John Spanos added to the disastrous drafting. Clearly the Chargers never had a chance to win the division in the 11-years Telesco was here.

KevDiego
KevDiego(@kevdiego)
Reply to  Tau837
1 year ago

 Tau837 Great breakdown Tau.ย  I like to look at GM decisions and judge them as good or bad.ย  You can make bad decisions and have good outcomes.ย  You can make good decisions and have bad outcomes.ย  Over the course of time, the more good decisions you make, the better your overall outcome will be.
I think we both agree that there were far too many unforced errors during the Telesco regime. Most of these bad decisions led to bad outcomes.ย  Most of us posting identified the bad decisions as they were being made.ย  Using your data:
2019: 4 bad decisions, 2 good decisions

Tillery: Bad decision, bad outcome
Adderley, Tranquill: Good decisions, decent outcome
Pipkins: Bad decision, decent outcome
Stick, Egbule, Broughton: bad decisions, bad outcomes

2020: 4 bad decisions, 3 good decisions

Herbert, Gilman: Good decisions, good outcome
Trading multiple picks for Murray: Horrible decision, horrible outcome
Kelley, Reid: Bad decisions, bad outcomes
Hill: Good decision, bad outcome

2021: 4 bad decisions, 5 good decisions

Slater, Samuel, Palmer, Jaimes, Niemann: Good decisions, good outcomes
McKitty, Rumph, Roundtree, Webb:ย  Bad decisions, bad outcomes

2022 (FWIW – I thought this was Telesco’s best draft): 1 bad decision, 6 good decisions

Johnson: Good decision, outcome TBD
Trading 2nd for Mack: Good decision
Woods in the 3rd: Bad decision, bad outcome (Telesco loves to waste 3rd round picks)
Spiller, Horvath:ย  Good decisions, bad outcomes
Ogbonnia: Good decision, outcome TBD
Salyer, Leonard: Good decision, good outcomes

2023: 4 bad decisions, 3 good decisions

QJ: Bad decision, outcome TBD
Tuli: Good decision, good outcome
Duggan: Bad decision, bad outcome
Henley, McFadden: Good decisions, outcome TBD
Davis, Matlock: Bad decisions, outcomes TBD:ย  Far too early to draft Davis & Matlock was forecasted to be a UDFA

That’s 17 bad decisions, 19 good decisions.ย  While I don’t know which picks will work out in 2024, there was not one bad decision made by Hortiz in the latest draft. That’s so much better than making a fucking stupid decision every-other pick.

Tau837
Tau837(@tau837)
Reply to  KevDiego
1 year ago

 KevDiego Interesting that the formatting (bullets) is lost when you view these comments in the article rather than the forum.
Interesting exercise that you did. Consider the track record by round (my opinions on good vs. bad decisions):

1st round (5 picks): 3 good decisions (Herbert, Slater, Zion), 2 bad decisions (Tillery, Johnston)

I addressed the Murray situation in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, where the traded picks were originally.

2nd round (5 picks): 4 good decisions (Mack trade, Tuli, Samuel, Adderley), 1 bad decision (Murray trade)
3rd round (6 picks): 1 good decision (Palmer), 5 bad decisions (Pipkins, Murray trade, McKitty, Woods, Henley)
4th round (5 picks): 2 good decisions (Tranquill, Spiller), 3 bad decisions (Rumph, Kelley, Davis)
5th round (5 picks): 3 good decisions (Jaimes, Ogbonnia, McFadden), 2 bad decisions (Stick, Reed)
6th round (7 picks): 4 good decisions (Gilman, Salyer, Niemann, Taylor), 3 bad decisions (Egbule, Rountree, Matlock)
7th round (6 picks): 2 good decisions (Leonard, Horvath), 4 bad decisions (Broughton, Hill, Webb, Duggan)
Total (39 picks): 19 good decisions, 20 bad decisions

Looking at it this way, his track record was good in the 1st and 2nd rounds. But the rest is dismal: 12 good decisions vs. 17 bad decisions. And that is a big reason why the Chargers rosters under Telesco lacked quality depth.
Admittedly, some of my takes on bad decisions are probably influenced by outcomes, and it may not be totally fair to characterize late picks like Egbule, Broughton, Hill, and Webb as bad decisions.
Also, while I might be in a honeymoon phase with Hortiz, I generally liked his draft decisions.

I only thought one pick (Still) was a reach. That said, if they had him high on their board and knew they also wanted Hart, they may have felt they had to take Still and Hart with those two picks. And they made great picks in the 6th and 7th, which may have been disrupted if they chose to let Still go until the 6th. Given how everything came together, I can’t characterize Still as a bad decision.
I would have traded down from 1.5, but I still like the Alt pick. I think there were multiple good decisions to be made there, and Hortiz made one of them.
The only other thing I might question is trading up for McConkey rather than standing pat and drafting another position like JPJ… but I like McConkey, albeit as a long term WR2/WR3, not WR1. I think there were multiple good decisions to be made there, and Hortiz made one of them.

KevDiego
KevDiego(@kevdiego)
Reply to  Tau837
1 year ago

I agree with your rankings. I was trying to honestly represent how I felt about each draft pick at the time of the draft. I remember going on a (probably drunken) rant about the McKitty pick on the day of the draft.

I share your optimism about Hortiz. I didn’t hate any of his picks/moves. I wanted a trade back as well, but when nobody offered value for the pick, he did the smart thing and picked what could potentially be a top-5 tackle. I didn’t like the trade up either. But, as Kyle pointed out, he swapped picks, which gave him the same number of picks (vs. Telesco giving multiple picks for one player). Overall, I liked Hortiz’s draft better than any of Telesco’s. The only Charger draft I remember liking better was 2004, the year AJ picked Manning, turned that into Rivers, Merriman and Tim Dwight. Every decision Hortiz has made has been sound. I’m excited to see what the results look like on the field.

BoltUpDK
BoltUpDK(@bolt_dk)
1 year ago

Anyone know what happened to Shane Lee? Did he find another PS?

KevDiego
KevDiego(@kevdiego)
Reply to  BoltUpDK
1 year ago

 BoltUpDK I believe he’s still a free agent.

BoltUpDK
BoltUpDK(@bolt_dk)
Reply to  KevDiego
1 year ago

 KevDiego That’s quite surprising. He played better than Quarterman and Jean-Baptiste.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

JT Woods signed to the Eagles practice squad today.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Jarrett Patterson to the practice squad and Isaiah Spiller released from the practice squad. Time to just part ways with Spiller.

FoutsMFIC
FoutsMFIC(@foutsmfic)
Reply to  Spanos Must Go
1 year ago

The purging of bad TT picks. I do have faith that they are not being cut just because they were TT picks. They’re being cut on merit, which highlights that they were bad TT picks.

Smith
Smith(@smith)
1 year ago

I donโ€™t know if Iโ€™m gilding the lily here, but the PS looks stronger than I recall in the past. Jefferson, Morris-Brash, Mustipher, Hankins all look like guys who could contribute week one.
Super curious to see what Hortiz has in mind for the masses of wr/rb/dbs as of now, but Iโ€™m willing to trust the process.
(Unrelated, Kyle, is there any reason my FiatBux handle got removed? I swear I didnโ€™t break any decency laws.)

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  Smith
1 year ago

 Smith maybe you’re expected to?? 😆

GBGH
GBGH(@gbgh)
Reply to  Buck Melanoma
1 year ago

 Buck Melanoma Pre-crime -love it. ย What does everyone think of the Heinicke pickup? ย I thought he was pretty good the few times I saw him play for the Commanders. ย Seems like a major upgrade over stick.

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  GBGH
1 year ago

 GBGH I’m happy that we no longer have a GM who thinks roster moves can’t be made after July.

GBGH
GBGH(@gbgh)
Reply to  Buck Melanoma
1 year ago

 Buck Melanoma Agreed. ย Whole thing feels different doesnโ€™t it.

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  GBGH
1 year ago

Like a stranger in a strange land.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Chargers are planning to cut Tony Jefferson, then possibly sign him to the Practice Squad.

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  Spanos Must Go
1 year ago

 Spanos Must Go done I believe.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Picture this as the talent starts to increase on the personnel side and you are dealing with superior defensive talent and an incredibly difficult system for offensesย  to figure out.ย  Thanks for the share you magnificent bastard!

TDU_Alister
TDU_Alister(@alisterlloyd)
1 year ago

This 10 minute piece of content from Brett Kollmann uploaded to the Chargers YouTube Channel is too damn exciting:

TDU_Alister
TDU_Alister(@alisterlloyd)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

 Kyle DeDiminicantanio Let’s be honest, his Kellen Moore video was just a video of a Dagger concept and then some stats about how his Offenses performed.
This one seems a little more meaningful if it casts light on this Defensive family simplifying play calling terminology in a way that’s unique and easier to understand for modern-day players. We’ll see though.

TDU_Alister
TDU_Alister(@alisterlloyd)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

 Kyle DeDiminicantanio Oh ok I must have missed that one. Kellen Moore was a major disappointment. I had Zac Robinson as 1b to Kellen’s 1a. And I’m going to guess that he’ll show in Atlanta this year that picking a fellow young coach, and the ‘next Shanahan disciple’, would have been a bolder (and better) decision for Staley. Bobby Slowik 2.0.

TDU_Alister
TDU_Alister(@alisterlloyd)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

 Kyle DeDiminicantanio Philly’s Offense last year struggled massively with blitz pick-up and running the same ineffective inside zone calls out of shotgun.
And so they hired the dude whose running game ranked 320 of 320 in efficiency since 2013, and whose Offense gave up 5 final drive sacks to lose the game.ย 
Best of luck 😆ย 

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

The trade for Elijah Molden was for our “2026” 7th round pick.ย  Talk about a great move!ย  Wowser!

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

We know that JT Woods was the cut victim for the Hassan Haskins waiver claim.ย  Not sure who has been cut for the Elijah Molden trade or the Taylor Heineke trades that have happened late afternoon today.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Being reported that it is for a conditional 6th round pick.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Traded for Taylor Heineke.

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  Spanos Must Go
1 year ago

 Spanos Must Go went to college near me….Old Dominion. Kinda fun to see him in bolts.

UncleJammsArmy
UncleJammsArmy(@unclejammsarmy)
1 year ago

Iโ€™m just glad Morris-Brash cleared waivers. Sorry to see Harper not clear waivers. Still need a QB2, and weโ€™ve already used a draft pick for Molden (great move). Come on, Hortiz, close strong!!

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Chargers finalizing a trade for Tennessee DB Elijah Molden for a late round draft pick.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
Reply to  Spanos Must Go
1 year ago

Elijah Molden 5’10″ 190lb safety drafted in 2021 3rd round from Washington Huskies.
PFF Defensive Grades: 2021 62.0, 2022 67.5….
2023 56.0 86th out of 95.ย  ย Pass Coverage 52.4, 83rd out of 94.ย  Run Defense 66.1, 51st out of 92.
Hopefully they can fit him into Minter’s defense and raise those scores A LOT.ย  Yikes.ย ย 

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

 Kyle DeDiminicantanio Not a huge fan of JT Woods, but this move does not make a ton of sense to me.ย  The Chargers have a full room of running backs so I’m not sure how this really changes anything other than Hassan is an excellent special teams player.ย  And the Chargers still have 7-wide receivers.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

I am hopeful that we target this position in the draft and find ourselves our Center for the next decade.ย  Make Charger Centers great again.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

ย 
โ€œPatrick Herbert is the epitome of toughness,โ€ tight ends coach Drew Mehringer said. โ€œThis is a guy that doesnโ€™t say a whole lot, that does the right thing, that misses very, very, very rare assignments, is prepared, plays through injury. Heโ€™s banged up? Doesnโ€™t care. He breaks his finger in the middle of practice? Doesnโ€™t care. Will not put on a red jersey. He is an awesome human being.โ€
Certainly seems like a Buck Melanoma Lunch Pail candidate!

FoutsMFIC
FoutsMFIC(@foutsmfic)
Reply to  Spanos Must Go
1 year ago

 Spanos Must Go Looks like toughness runs in the family.

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  Spanos Must Go
1 year ago

 Spanos Must Go yes PLEASE!!!

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Interesting practice squad addition is a veteran Center from Denver, Sam Mustipher.
ย 

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Isaiah Spiller to the practice squad.ย  Seems like a lot of running backs.ย  I really thought it was time to move on from Spiller.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

Shaq Quarterman to the Chargers practice squad.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

 Kyle DeDiminicantanio If they did have a plan to bring Parham onto the team in week #2 that just flew out the window to Denver.ย  They are really light at TE, but maybe the plan is to load up on the practice squad.

Buck Melanoma
Buck Melanoma(@buck-melanoma)
Reply to  Kyle DeDiminicantanio
1 year ago

 Kyle DeDiminicantanio shame he just never worked out. I thought that circus catch, near TD where he injured his neck was gonna be a coming out party….until the injury occurred. I’m not at all certain he’s ever fully recovered from that and you can add other injuries along with it.
ย 
All the ability in the world means nothing if you don’t have availability.

Spanos Must Go
Spanos Must Go(@spanos-must-go)
1 year ago

He is a very good special teams player and a big back (6’2″ 230lbs).ย  I don’t think he is a “special” running back, but maybe the special teams aspect since Nieman is on IR for 4-weeks helped tilt his value.

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