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We’ve just released Episode 108 of the Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast.
Our synopsis for Episode 108 is below:
It was a deathly quiet first week of free agency for the Chargers and fans were angry! They thought GM Joe Hortiz had forgotten about the team’s $90m of cap space and that Herbert was being hung out to dry (again). Then the Chargers signed the largest OL in the NFL, Super Bowl Winning Right Guard, Mekhi Becton. Are there some more big moves coming #BoltFam? We discuss it all on TDU. Don’t miss it!
You can also listen on Spotify below (or download on audio wherever you like to listen to podcasts):
As always, you can support us by doing any or all of the following:
– Rec’ing this post and leaving any thoughts/feedback you have in the comments section below.
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Hope you enjoy the episode! Thanks so much for listening 
Alister (@TDU_Alister)
Al, Will the video be upcoming? Or must we listen only?
@kathmandusteve Video is coming soon Steve, sorry! We’ve scheduled it to drop on YouTube at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific
Great pod, as always – appreciate the effort you guys put into this. A few comments:
- You guys need a new opening. Too many former Chargers – need to highlight some of the younger guys. Maybe something with Ladd?
- Mack had to come back. Great signing for Mack and the team
- Jalen Reagor was the 21st pick in the 2020 draft. I thought he flashed a bit of the good and traits that led to him being drafted in the first round and some of the bad traits that led to him being cut after 2 years with the Eagles. Jalen just turned 26, is athletic and talented. This is the type of low-risk, high-reward reclamation project that this organization is going to continue to do. Good signing
- I think the Jackson signing makes some sense. St-Juste is clearly a special teams signing.
- Bozeman cannot be the center. Dude just does not have the football IQ for the position.
- I agree that Becton is the best signing of the FA season. He’s going to significantly raise the floor of the running game.
- A UDFA that I really liked last pre-season is Tyler McLellan. Tyler hurt his knee in the last pre-season game and spent the year on IR. The dude is 6’8″, 355lbs. Can you imagine a jumbo package where he lines up at TE next to Alt? Watch out for McLellan.
- I hated the Harris signing. Better ways to spend the cap. Over-used, limited athletically. I would have double-dipped in a very deep draft.
Agree on Mack, Reagor, Becton, Jackson.
It seems by far the most likely outcome to me at this point that Bozeman will be the starting center. Zion would seem the next most likely, but I am skeptical he can master the position, including the line calls, in a single offseason.
I didn’t like the Harris signing, but I’ve come around to neutral on it. Contract is one year and contract value isn’t bad considering more than 40% of the potential value is incentives. Durability is a good thing. I assume the team will complement him with a capable rookie RB, and I could see Harris being a solid player in a 60 (Harris) / 30 (rookie) / 10 (Vidal, Haskins) split to open the season.
I am skeptical McLellan will earn a final roster spot.
Disagree on St. Juste. Consider his zone vs. man PFF grades:
- 2024:
- Zone: 67.6 grade (#57 out of 141 CBs with 100+ coverage snaps), 83.2 passer rating allowed
- Man: 29.4 grade (#134T), 137.2 passer rating allowed
- 2023:
- Zone: 69.0 grade (#64T out of 151 CBs with 100+ coverage snaps), 94.1 passer rating allowed
- Man: 50.8 grade (#89T), 99.6 passer rating allowed
- 2022:
- Zone: 74.2 grade (#44T out of 152 CBs with 100+ coverage snaps), 73.0 passer rating allowed
- Man: 46.5 grade (#104T), 111.7 passer rating allowed
Now consider Fulton’s grades in 2023 vs. 2024 (let’s call the difference “the Minter effect”):
- 2023:
- Zone: 55.2 grade (#131 out of 151 CBs with 100+ coverage snaps), 143.3 passer rating allowed
- Man: 33.5 grade (#137), 118.8 passer rating allowed
- 2024:
- Zone: 71.2 grade (#45 out of 141 CBs with 100+ coverage snaps), 99.6 passer rating allowed
- Man: 57.0 grade (#54T), 128.2 passer rating allowed
St. Juste signed with Michigan in 2017, played one year, and redshirted another year there before transferring. So Harbaugh is familiar with him. His draft profile at NFL.com projected him as a 3-4 round pick (he was drafted at 3.10) and said this in overview:
Intriguing cornerback with impressive measurables and a competitive spirit that shines through at the catch point and in run support. As a Canadian import with limited college experience at both Michigan and Minnesota, St-Juste is behind in terms of his feel and instincts. His route recognition is below average and his change of direction in coverage can be clunky, but those areas can improve with more experiences and technique work. He’s a brute at the catch point, tilting contested catches in his favor, and he has some excellent tape as a tackler who finishes what he starts with form and strength. Finding the proper scheme fit will be important and a move to safety is a possibility. A team could see a noticeable improvement in his play within the first two years, but he’s a developmental prospect with good upside at this juncture.
I think he is an intriguing low risk, potential high reward player on defense, not just special teams.
Interesting points on St Juste. Its pretty clear that this coaching staff elevated the play of their defensive players. I think it’s reasonable to assume that the same will happen with the latest round of buy-low DBs. I am less optimistic about the DL signings. I’m hopeful that they draft 1-2 DL in what looks like a very deep draft.
Too bad Roman and team are not able to elevate their players like Minter’s staff…
@kevdiego I was listening to Daniel Jeremiah on some podcast and he said that during combine he was talking to some scouting guru (I wish I could remember who exactly). But dude told DJ that every team has one position group that can get by with so-so players because the scheme doesn’t feature them and doesn’t rely too much on them. He said for the current Chargers, that’s the CB group. He said they keep it simple and so long as they have decent athletes, the defense will be fine. Looking at how Still and Hart shot out of the gate, he might be right. (Though Taylor tells a different story.) I sure hope that guy knew what he was talking about.
When I was in college, I had a job selling BMWs. I sold a car to a martial arts instructor that worked part-time for the Chargers teaching the interior OL/DL how to use leverage.
He told me that every team has 1-2 “studs” on each side of the ball. Everyone else was filler. Interchangeable dudes that did a job. The game basically came down to your 2-4 studs against their 2-4 studs.
So, yea, I think the studs on defense were Mack and James. Everyone else was JAG.
@kevdiego I used to drive a 3-series with rear wheel drive, a shit ton of torque, and a turning radius that could be measured to micro-millimeters. Now I drive a Volvo, which is nice, but I can’t take a corner at 60mph, I can’t rope it up to 125 to escape a truck convoy, and I can’t parallel park with only two inches on either side. I think that’s the difference between Gill Byrd or Antonio Cromartie vs. Mike Davis or Zont.
@smith Great analogy. I feel the same way when I drive my wife’s Honda Pilot. I remember driving an M5 when it first came out very early on a Saturday morning. The owners son and I took the car out on I5 and hit 150MPH. The car was amazing. The M5 felt more stable at 100 than the Pilot at 45. I’m guessing Herbert feels the same with the difference between Linsley and Bozeman.
@tau837 Good data Tau. St Juste also had a 62.8% REC% allowed when targeted in 24 (good for 53rd of 127 CBs who played at least 20% of their team’s snaps).
His Special Teams grade last season was 67.3, and when he played for Michigan in 2017 it was 12 games predominantly as a STer.
I really don’t know where he’ll sit in the pecking order through training camp. I could see Hart getting the first chance to start (alongisde Donte Jackson) with St Juste being primarily used on Special Teams to start the season. Minter likes to move his corners around a bit, with Still splitting some time between Outside and Slot, as we know. So St Juste could se 6-8 snaps on Defense at any time. But watching him play for the Commanders, I’m not confident he’ll play signicantly more than that early in the season but nothing would surprise me either.
@alisterlloyd St. Juste was also with Michigan in 2018, a redshirt season. So he was with Harbaugh for 2 seasons.
I think outside corner pecking order today is Jackson, Hart, Still, Leonard, St. Juste. I think St. Juste and Leonard will battle for that slotting.
I think slot corner pecking order today (from snap count perspective) is James, Still, Taylor. I think Taylor might not make the final 53 man roster, though that would imply a need for another CB6.
So I think we are in general agreement here.
@kevdiego Thanks Kev!
- On the intro video, I can’t see it happening again for a while haha. After Staley was fired, we changed a couple things in the intro to include soundbites of Harbaugh and Ben Herbert but it takes a while to do. Jack’s dad (who’s a cinematographer) helped us with it, and frankly it probably pi**ed him off. We’re happy to have some older stalwarts of the team in the intro to show our longevity as fans. Never say never though!
- On Najee, I tried to paint the negative picture and the positive picture. If we draft another back with more juice, I’m happy with the room for 2025. We’ve never seen Najee in a predominantly Gap-based running scheme (he’s had 706 Zone carries v 384 Gap carries in his career) and with 63 Forced Missed Tackles last season (7th most among RBs, in total at least) I’m intrigued to see how he works in Roman’s sytem hammering the rock between the tackles. The fit makes some sense. He’s also never missed a game, and when Dobbins/Gus were injured last year we saw what happened to the Offense.
Point taken on the video. Maybe when you re-do it, you can take a clip from every era? John Hadl to Lance Alworth? Dan Fouts to Kellen Winslow? Speedy Duncan pick-6? Seau and Merriman sack? Could be fun.
The Chargers were very lucky with Dobbins last year, The injury situation could have been significantly worse. I think with upgraded OL play, the 2025 Chargers will be much more effective running the ball, regardless of the back. I don’t hate Harris, I just think the Chargers can do better in the mid/late rounds in the draft.
Just got to listen to the pod. Stream of consciousness reaction follows.
Andy said Zion played a little center in high school and college. I know he did not in college and I believe I have read he did not in high school, either. (Which makes sense, since he was probably a better natural fit for guard/tackle in high school simply due to size.) He took some snaps at center at the Senior Bowl, but that was a week. Until this offseason, I’m not aware he took any snaps in any setting (training camp, practice, preseason) with the Chargers.
He is reputed to be a smart guy, which could help. As you guys noted, his athleticism is a fit for the position. My biggest concern is how long it would take him to be able to adequately make the line calls. What would happen in the interim, have Herbert do it? It also begs the question as of right now, who would play LG? If they go out and sign Jenkins or Hernandez, maybe the answer becomes obvious. But today, it would presumably be Salyer. Is LG Salyer, C Johnson an actual upgrade over LG Johnson, C Bozeman? I’m skeptical.
I posted more info above in response to Kev about St. Juste, which IMO provides even more support for your overall positive take on the signing.
In talking about Hand, Jones, and Ford, Alister made good comments about tackling but then said “they probably have more pass rush upside.” Well, last season, Poona had 25 pressures in 384 pass rushing snaps, and Poona and Fox combined for 57 pressures in 793 pass rushing snaps. Hand and Jones combined had 24 pressures in 454 pass rushing snaps. So I doubt Alister is correct there. The IDL as constructed might be similarly good in run defense but appears obviously weaker at pass rush as of now. Combine that with the need to replace Bosa, and pass rush is the #1 defensive problem right now by far.
Alister asked: “Do you reckon they weren’t aggressive enough, and they were too stubborn?” No question this is true in my mind. It may work out fine for the Chargers, but I think this approach precludes reaching the ceiling of the offseason and 2025 season.
They would have had to figure out the right guy(s) to spend big on for multiple seasons, but that’s part of the job. Had they signed Milton Williams (or a couple others), plus Hand and/or Jones, IDL would be off the early draft board. Had they signed 2 IOL players, IOL would off the early draft board. Had they signed Josh Sweat, Edge would be off the early draft board. Had they signed Davante Adams, WR would be off the early draft board. As things stand, they haven’t taken anything off the early draft board, except perhaps CB, but I never expected CB was actually in play on the early draft board, barring an unexpected value falling.
I hope they are going to trade for Andrews or Goedert, to take TE off the early draft board. There is still a chance for that. There is still a chance to sign another IOL player also, and take that off the early draft board.
One thing that annoys me is the notion that signing a top of market player is not responsible cap spending. That is not true if you identify the right players. I mean, the Chargers are paying top of market contracts for Herbert and James. They are about to do it with Slater. So that is inherently not a problem, supporting the idea that it makes sense for the right players. Sometimes people worry that it could hamstring the team in future seasons, but if you do it with the right players, they are impact players in future seasons as well. And the cap keeps going up. I just think the approach is more conservative than it needs to be.
If we assume the Chargers are going to make the playoffs again, but won’t be a true Super Bowl contender, would 2 upgrades from value players to top caliber players make the difference? We’ll never know.
@tau837 Awesome comments Tau:
- On Zion, I think Jack was led into error there by comments I’ve made to him offline. I had heard from Matt “Money” Smith on Chargers Weekly mention Zion played there a bit as a younger player, but looking into it now that seems mistaken. The best I can find is that he “worked as a back-up Center” at Boston College (whatever that means: https://www.si.com/college/bostoncollege/football/zion-johnson-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report), and he took snaps there at the Senior Bowl. Not sure if the Chargers would ever have cross-trained him there in training camp but I have never heard it if they did. That is not much practice at the position.
- You can find some nice cut-ups on YouTube of Hand/Naquan using some swim moves and club/rips at the LoS to find their way into the backfield, but I agree I went too far with my comments. Poona didn’t pressure the QB as much as some of the other elite DTs who had high overall PFF grades like him last year, but it was probably wrong to say Hand/Naquan will be better in that regard. And Poona takes on double teams better. I’m still annoyed we didn’t retain Poona, so speaking sh*t on the pod is probably my way of coping :-p
- Agree with all the rest of the comments you’ve made. Signing Sweat at his price would’ve been fine by me. Signing Davante would have been fine by me. Signing DJ Reed would’ve been fine by me. Milton Williams a bit expensive. But overall, I agree that the team took their strategy a touch too far and have missed the chance (at least so far) to negate some draft needs.
@buck-melanoma Goedert is effectively the same. Let’s see if they trade for him.
I’ll say that there’s numerous Chargers podcasters in the social media universe. I don’t like most of them because the podcast becomes more about them than the team and, really, they don’t add any value to the “content creation” business. I mean, why should I value your opinions more than mine if you’re just riffing off the cuff?? I could do that.
I really enjoy hearing the TDU guys even though they can’t speak a word of proper English. Alister, in particular, backs up his views with data. Jack and Andy stay grounded in their takes too. And I appreciate that. Except for Jack’s ill-begotten dreams of a singing career. The same for Kyle D and Ryan W. on Powderkeg, though Ryan is nearly as incomprehensible as the Aussie boys. Great, informed, documented content.
I appreciate Popper’s content simply because he has access to information the other content creators do not. But just because you’re a “content creator” in name doesn’t mean you’re creating any unregurgitated content or add value to any discussion. This is why enjoy listening to the blokes from Powderkeg and TDU.
Keep it up guys (blokes). You’re doing great work.
I’ll also say there are commenters on here whose opinions are much more informed than the so-called content creators. But we vote with our clicks. So click accordingly.
@unclejammsarmy We do our best UncleJamms, thank you!
When you create and start the UncleJamms Podcast I’ll be the first to listen and rate your elocution and command of proper English. Warning: If you don’t pronounce the “H” in Herbert, you’ll have started poorly :-p
Anyone know the status of CJ Okoye? or 4th round pick Eboigbe? Perhaps those guys can help fill the DT position and with some youth? Still a lot of holes to fill.
Looks like Okoye signed a Reserve/Futures contract with Baltimore: https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/ravens-reserve-future-contracts-2025
Eboigbe’s in a battle now for his future (assuming at least one more DT gets drafted which I’d say is likely). He didn’t show much of anything last year nor was he mentioned by Minter or any of the coaches in press conferences. It’s probably a good sign for your team depth when the rooke 4th rounder isn’t getting playing time, but he’ll need to start showing something soon.
Thanks for the update. I was hoping Okoye was developing and could eventually contribute. Really hope Eboigbe makes some impact that 4th round pick could have been used for a developmental Center or a TE or Bucky.
Dye is back.
Team signed C Andre James.
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