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We've just released Episode 118 of the Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast.
Our synopsis for Episode 118 is below:
A turbulent week for Chargers fans concluded on Sunday with a 27-13 victory against Kellen Moore and Brandon Staley’s Saints at SoFi Stadium. Earlier in the week, the joyous return of Keenan Allen to the Powder Blues on a 1yr deal was swiftly soured by news that franchise LT Rashawn Slater had suffered a serious knee injury at practice which scans confirmed will end his 2025 season prematurely. Yet there were no signs of the team slowing down on the field as the “next men up” performed admirably leading the Bolts to a 2-0 Preseason record. We discuss what it all means for the season this week on TDU. Don’t miss it!
You can also listen on Spotify below (or download on audio wherever you like to listen to podcasts):
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Hope you enjoy the episode! Thanks so much for listening 
Alister (@TDU_Alister)
Another interesting episode. Hope Andy returns soon. One thing about the Slater injury is that I think this has the possibility of becoming a multi season issue. How does the team handle it? With the odds of returning even close to form pretty slim, do they make adding a quality RT next offseason a high priority? Do they bank on Slater coming back and resuming his LT spot? Do they cement Alt at LT and ask Slater to move to RT? Would that be considered a slap in the face to him? What if they plan to transition him inside to shore up the IOL? Does the contract prohibit such a move? What if the medical reports and the testing support him returning at least adequately enough to resume a starting spot at LT or RT and the team moves forward with that plan only to realize early in the season or camp that he isn't the same player? Plus, they would be hamstrung for the salary of a player who cannot perform anywhere near expectation for that type of $$.
It is harsh, but I would plan to address OT either early in FA or the draft. At worst we would have a quality swing OT as an insurance policy against Slater not returning to form. This team is to quickly gearing toward a SB run to take a major step backwards with the OT position. The will already have a ton of work to do on the interior, so we might realistically be looking at 3 new OL starters next year. Not ideal for a supposed SB window team. This injury has the possibility to cause a serious ripple effect to the roster building for the next few seasons. Just a mess all around.
Thanks Erick! Andy will be back next week. Nothing serious. "Working through somethin'" 😆
I agree that the Chargers are quickly gearing towards a Super Bowl push and how this Slater catastrophe is managed (and overcome) is critical. I don't think we'll get much clarity this season. Obviously the medical reports after the season will be important, although really how certain can even doctors be about the level of play we can expect him to return to.
None of us like to admit it, but injuries to a team's best players can influence season outcomes and Super Bowl runs. I think the team needs to approach Offensive Tackle next offseason expecting Slater not to be his former self, and then anything better than will be a great problem to have.
A complete mess indeed.
Enjoyed the pod Al and Jack! It's likely that Alt will earn and cement his position at LT in the upcoming season, and just as well if there is a chance that Slater returns at "not quite" the level he was before injury.
We'll have a number of needs that beg 1st round attention next year, including other O-Line positions, so I'm not penciling in focusing on OT in the 2026 1st round - I also still hope we are drafting too late in the round to get one of the top OTs anyway.
Cheers Steve.
Definitely not pencilling anything in for the Draft right now, although I've just finished Summer Scouting for the college season, and it looks like a great OT class in 2025.
I'm going to try keep my mind in the present though.
Be better tomorrow than I was today 😛
You can do it Joe (Alt/Hortiz)!
Hey Al. You guys covered quite a bit in the episode but the one position group I dont hear people talking about is LB. Most have us carrying just 4 with Colson and Dye rounding out the group, however Emany Johnson could very well be in the mix. He just recently switched to LB and hasnt looked out of place
Just as a side note as you highlighted Mickens CAN tackle in the open field. You know how some guys come sideways and make a swoop sorta motion and make it appear effortless. Well he does that and that alone should have had him draft a lot sooner. You described him as a football player, loved that. Hortiz looks like he was cooking this offseason for sure. The CB position is stacked and I dont mean with vets. There's very little money invested in the CB position as a whole, and yet it could very well be the strength of this team. The secondary as a whole is a track to be an asset to this club. It's a testament to as you noted both Hortiz finding these sleepers and Minter simplifying things for them. I mean just look at Emany dude is balling out in a completely different position. He's weeks from switching positions and is out playing Colson.
Any concern there from the TDU crew? Could Emany mean we have to keep 5 off ball linebackers or is that an impossibility with the depth at skill positions. Keep in mind Emany is just 24 and is 6'2. He dominated his athletic testing coming out in 2024. Maybe he was just playing out of position with the Cowboys last year. History has shown this is doable position switch, and IMO there's so upside here considering he's only 24 and a first year player
Hey Ennea. The injury status of Del'Shawn Phillips makes LB difficult to project. I would be surprised if the team were seriously considering a 53-man spot for anybody outside the Henley/Perryman/Dye/Colson/Phillips group, only because I think all the others would find their way to the PS. Colson's form has been a problem, I might watch the All-22 this week to see how he fared against the Rams. Didn't really notice him on the broadcast.
I thought Emany Johnson did ok today and made a couple tackles. Again, I probably need to watch a bit closer on the re-watch. I'm really loving what the team's Defense UDFAs have brought to the table this offseason. I wish we had some similar luck on the Offensive Line. Probably speaks to scarcity around the league, but this Barnhart project is screaming to a halt, I think. And the other guys haven't looked great either...
Enjoyed the show, as usual.
On Slater's contract:
I posted under Kyle's article that it has been reported that Slater's contract had $92M guaranteed for injury at the time of signing. IMO they would owe him the full $92M if they were to release him by March 2026, assuming he could not pass an NFL physical... which means they wouldn't do that for cap reasons. Also, I have a hard time believing they would be willing to cut him that soon, anyway, before they could possibly know if he can come back strong from the injury.
On Salyer at RT:
IMO all evidence shows that Pipkins will get first shot at RT. And I agree with that. I posted some reasons in another thread.
On Allen:
Agree with Alister's take. He makes the WR group and team better.
On Minter:
Absolutely agree Minter >> Staley. Minter has adapted to a defensive personnel group that was less than ideal last season and so far this offseason/camp/preseason. Staley (or others for him) made an excuse out of not having the right personnel. I have always felt the sign of a great coach is to adapt to the strengths of the personnel. Staley didn't show that with the Chargers. Minter has.
On DJ U:
Lol at the idea that he would force himself onto the 53 man roster. I could always be wrong, but I don't see that at all. Consider competition level in his NFL exposure so far. Consider college performance (he was a disappointment).
On Harris:
Agree he should be on the worry list. As things stand today, I think he will get fewer snaps than I had initially thought when he was drafted.
On Gadsden:
I never expected much more than Stone Smartt production this season. I think many fans have overestimated his likely 2025 contribution, barring injury to Dissly and Conklin.
On DBs:
IMO Mickens is a lock for the 53 man roster. I do not believe he would make it through waivers to the practice squad. Jefferson is not a 4th safety, he is the 5th, like Alister said.
Agree that there is an apparent potential disconnect between who is playing the best at CB and who will make it.
On Hines:
I think you guys might be putting too much into the two muffs Hines had as far as ensuring he shouldn't be a candidate to return punts/kicks. He has an extensive career history of success doing that, and he is a much better player on offense. Not a given, and those two muffs were definitely bad for his case, but IMO writing him off now is a bit early.
Sorry I didn't manage to respond to this before today's game, Tau.
Good comments.
I'll see if I can get to the bottom of the Slater contract situation before the season starts, but I agree they will be unlikely to know, either way, by the third day of next year if he can come back strong. I don't expect him to be cut.
On DJ U, I had really only intended that comment to suggest that if he keeps showing up and playing well on game days, we might not be able to assume that he automatically clears waivers and signs to the PS. But then today he doesn't suit up. You'd think he makes it to the PS now, unless he dominates next weekend. I wonder if there's any strategic element to not giving him snaps today?
Harris & Gadsden (before today) had both looked to me like they weren't in synch with the Quarterback. The timing had looked slightly off. Even today, that anticipatory throw from Lance to Harris on third down was completed but not perfectly timed up. Rookie growing pains perhaps, and also I expect with Herbert under Center they'll continue to improve. Step in the right direction today for Tre'.
On Hines, I think that's fair. The second muff hurt him though. I won't write him off because I think he offers a unique element in the receiving game, and I've always appreciated him as a player. He faces a battle to make the team now, but maybe if Najee starts the season on the NFI, Hines could beat out Vidal. I'm going to assume your fandom of NC State has nothing to do with your commentary on this topic 😉
Great podcast, even without Andy... A few comments:
OL:
- The starting RT for the 2025 Chargers is currently on the roster. I do not see a world where they can find/trade for a player that is better than Salyer/Pipkins/Becton
- One thing missing in the Pipkins discussion is his injury history. He's never missed lots of time, but his play had degraded due to nagging injuries. Depending on Trey to start 17 games is asking a lot.
- Salyer, on the other hand, has been relatively healthy/available.
- James did not look good at Guard.
- Given all that, I would consider a starting OL of: Alt-Bozeman-James-Becton-Salyer with Pipkins as the swing and Zion as the backup IOL. Don't think the Chargers will do that, but I think that puts the best players in a position they're good at while maintaining quality backup
Slater:
- Missing 2 of 5 years is not good. There is something going on with Slater that the team needs to identify and fix. It's not normal for patellar tendons to tear off bones or pecs to tear. The team invested a ton of money in him; they need to look at nutrition/training/treatments and figure out how to prevent him from future injuries
- There are treatments available to help speed recovery and improve outcomes. The one I'm most familiar with is stem cells. Injecting stem cells into the injured tissue stimulates re-growth. There are other evolving plans of care, which I hope the Chargers explore, but think there's a lot of value in stem cell therapy
- What do the Chargers do in 2026 if Alt is an all-pro LT in 2025?
More comments to follow
I could absolutely see a future in which the Chargers have the following OL depth chart for 2026:
- LT: Alt
- LG: Slater
- C: 2026 2nd round draft pick
- RG: Becton
- RT: 2026 1st round draft pick
- Backup C: Bozeman
- Backup G: Salyer on a reasonable veteran backup OL contract
- Backup T: veteran free agent on a reasonable veteran backup OL contract; could be Pipkins if he will sign cheap enough, but I'm skeptical since the his market value is likely too high given the state of the OT free agent market
There are many variations on this. Challenges:
1. Counting on Slater to start in 2026. Not a given he will be ready by week 1 and able to play 17+ games.
2. Counting on getting the right RT and C at the Chargers' picks. Not a given.
3. Not using a draft pick on any other position group until the 3rd round and later. Sitting here in August 2025, it appears pass rush is going to be a weakness this season, and Mack and Dupree are UFAs after the season. Tough to find quality pass rushers in the 3rd round and later.
Fortunately, the Chargers should have enough cap space to sign a high quality veteran free agent. So they have the means to work around the problem if motivated to do so.
The 2026 OL is not an easy challenge to solve. Hortiz's failure to draft a center in the 2024 draft continues to haunt the OL.
Hortiz’s failure to draft a center in the 2024 draft continues to haunt the OL.
Absolutely correct. Hated the Eboigbe pick at time. Looks even worse now. There were options at center there. I liked the Junior pick, but the team would absolutely be better off with Dominick Puni on the team.
Interesting 2026 solution to the OL. With the limited number of picks, it's going to be difficult to dedicate 1/3 of your picks on the OL. They're also going to be drafting in the bottom third of the draft, so drafting a quality RT is not guaranteed.
Will be interesting to see what they do with Slater. I am very concerned about both the frequency and type of injuries. If Alt plays at a high level (which I expect) and wants to play LT (which likely improves his value, although that's maybe less-true now), then I think the Chargers need to keep him happy. If forced to chose, I think I would pick Alt over Slater. Hopefully both are healthy and play at a high level in 2026.
I really can't see them move Slater to guard. The highest guard APY's would be:
Slater - $28.5M
Trey Smith - $23.5M
Landon Dickerson- $21M
Chris Lindstrom - $20.5M
They definitely could flip him with Alt and let him play RT, but they'd basically be conceding to significantly overpaying him right off the bat
Assuming the Spotrac/Pro Football Talk reporting is correct, I feel like moving him to RT and letting Salyer/the swing play until Slater was 100% ready to return to action would be the move.
Big question marks at LG and C for sure. Bozeman is still getting paid backup money (his contract is loaded with incentives for starting or playing in games, currently listed as LTE because he started all games last year).
Maybe our one big FA splash is, again, a G.
Rough part is we still have no idea what we have in Becton - whether he can perform without a stud line around him, or if he can stay healthy.
I get it. But their investment in Slater is a sunk cost. All that matters now is what is best for team success going forward.
Not saying you are wrong, but your focus on contract is a red herring IMO.
I also remember Harbaugh saying he would start 5 tackles if he could. They have a problem at LG. If they moved Slater there, would he solve it and dominate? I think so. That could be tempting.
Tau,
- These issues are why this team did not have the luxury of a Rd1 RB. My draft plan was Egbuka or Edge because of both the current scarcity on the roster and future of those position groups. Just like OL, good Edge players are usually taken in the first round, and they are usually very expensive in FA and the best players never hit the market. I would trade for Hendrickson now with an expectation that he still has 2-3 top seasons left and he will be hell bent to prove it. Maybe they liked Kennard a lot pre draft and he is not developing as they thought, but they were banking on a 34yr old Mack, a 32yr old Dupree and an Edge setter in Tuli as the Edge group. We are a Mack injury away from being deficient there and unless Kennard hits, its a gaping roster hole for 2026. I will die on the hill that a Rd1 RB was a bad use of the most premium asset.
- Are we sure Hortiz values the C position? Each GM has their own personal team building philosophy, and this might be his. Telesco always prioritized skill positions over trenches. It's not the same, but maybe Hortiz feels with a good OT and OG group the C is not as important? He has not shown anything to the contrary.
- To be honest I wasn't expecting anything more from this season than we accomplished last year. If we somehow got a playoff win, that would be gravy. I was actually expecting a slight regression maybe to like 9-10 wins. I'm not sure if it is all the scars from season's past, but I think this Slater injury could have the domino effect to have this be a non playoff season. The OL is now critically thin for a position group that historically incurs a bunch of injuries each season and was already weak at IOL. Fair or not, until we see Becton play and play well, I am including him in the weak IOL unit. There's a possibility he doesn't even start the year healthy. He hasn't even practiced in weeks.
Thanks for the comments Kev. I was too slow to reply this week but I've read them all and will try engage a bit better next time. Hope all's well with your house issues too!
RB:
- I think Hines is the much easier stash on the PS. Vidal and Rocket likely do not clear waivers. Hines spent all of 2024 on a PS.
- Harris needs to start the season on the PUP. I was hoping that the team could keep Hampton fresh for a playoff run, but looks like they're going to need him early in the season.
WR:
- I didn't expect a lot from Harris (or KLS), especially early in the season. With Keenan back on the team, I think playing time for both rookies will be limited. Later in the season, I could see both playing a larger role.
- With the play of Campbell, I am struggling to see a path for Rice to make the PS. Nice story. The kid ain't the dad (which is a very high bar).
Defense:
- The play this coaching staff gets out of players I've never heard of is amazing. I couldn't have more confidence in this defensive staff (which is the exact opposite of the offensive staff).
- While there is no super-star, the IDL rotation seems to be strong, which I think gives the Chargers an advantage late in games, especially if Caldwell can provide interior pressure. Mahomes hates that.
- Interesting roster decisions at Edge and LB. I think both Colson and Kennard will make the roster, but I don't see either contributing much this season. Wax, Morris-Brash and Murphy all seem like they would contribute much more to the 2025 team. Hope the Chargers find a way to keep all three.
Getting excited for the season to start. Cooler weather (at least in our hemisphere), football, kids in school. All things to look forward to.
Why would Vidal not clear waivers? His NFL performance last season was fairly poor. Did he have a breakout preseason performance when I wasn't looking?
I also wouldn't be so sure Hines would last on the PS. He has probably already shown enough that any team with a serious need for a veteran RB (Houston?) could sign him.
I could see the team possibly drumming up a reason for a player like Kennard to go on IR, making room for Murphy to make the 53 man roster. I would still be surprised if Wax or Morris-Brash make it, but they certainly could be signed to the practice squad.
Vidal was drafted and has very good college tape. He may make it to the PS, or a team with a need at RB could look at his college tape and how Roman has used him and decide he could be effective in their offense.
Hines was on NFL practice squads all last season and was not signed by anyone in the offseason. It was only after he worked out for the Chargers that he had another NFL opportunity. I doubt anyone would put him on their roster.
I just re-watched the game and thought Wax was not great, at least in the condensed replay. Agree on the point with Kennard. Feels like a redshirt season.
Hines was on NFL practice squads all last season and was not signed by anyone in the offseason.
Hines was coming off major injury. I will agree to disagree with you on this.
Wasn't Hines hurt in early 2023? Nyhiem was rehabbing on the Bills in 2023, then on signed by the Browns in 2024. I guess the Chargers could stash Hynes on the NFI list again this year, but that's 2+ years on that list, which seems a bit extreme.
I like the idea of Hines shiftiness as a change of pace in the running game and his return skills (provided he can remember how to catch the damn ball) are valuable. If healthy, I think I would rather keep him over Vidal.
I just think the younger, not injured, drafted RB would be less likely to clear waivers when compared to an injured, older used-to-be-good RB that anyone could have signed a month ago.
Hines was hurt in July 2023. As you allude to here, he was on NFI for both the 2023 and 2024 seasons. He says he is back to previous form now. If true, and the coaches would know, IMO he is better than Vidal.
I see no reason to believe Vidal is any more valuable than any number of other RBs who will not make final 53 man rosters. Point being, I see no reason why he would not pass through waivers and be able to be signed to the practice squad.
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